Help with Southern Region EMU formations

[PWHolmes]

Can someone explain to me in idiot speak (so that I can understand) the logic behind how to put together SR emu consists for EPB and HAP units created by DRB. They really are superbly built but I'm blowed if I can understand how to do it from the Freeware manual.

There seems to be so many car variants available. Understand the DMBS (etc) notation but what is the half and some of the 4-car vehicles contain the term 2 cars??? All I want is a 4-car, a 2-car set a 2-car+4-car and a 4-car+4-car.

I must be getting old..........

[chrisonline]

I don't have them but . . have they provided Quick Drive consists? If so, you don't have to "assemble" them . . . just select "consist" (as opposed to "loco") in the scenario editor.

Of course if there are no Quick Drives . . .

[deltic009]

I don't have them but . . have they provided Quick Drive consists? If so, you don't have to "assemble" them . . . just select "consist" (as opposed to "loco") in the scenario editor.

Of course if there are no Quick Drives . . .

These were made long before the advent of Quick Drive sadly.

[gptech]

Understand the DMBS (etc) notation but what is the half and some of the 4-car vehicles contain the term 2 cars

The 'half' refers to each driving car having the physics altered to give accurate performance/physics when using a set comprised of a powered coach and trailer coach; for example a 4-EPB has 2 motored driving coaches, whilst a 2-EPB only has the 1 coupled to a driving trailer. I believe only powered vehicles can be driven so this strategy gets round that limitation, yet still retains some accuracy in regards to performance.
In other words, use the 'half' variant when creating a 2 car set.

[37114]

Can someone explain to me in idiot speak (so that I can understand) the logic behind how to put together SR emu consists for EPB and HAP units created by DRB. They really are superbly built but I'm blowed if I can understand how to do it from the Freeware manual.

There seems to be so many car variants available. Understand the DMBS (etc) notation but what is the half and some of the 4-car vehicles contain the term 2 cars??? All I want is a 4-car, a 2-car set a 2-car+4-car and a 4-car+4-car.

I must be getting old..........

You'll often find the Wikipedia entry for EMU's and DMU's has the correct consists mentioned.

[749006]

Can someone explain to me in idiot speak (so that I can understand) the logic behind how to put together SR emu consists for EPB and HAP units created by DRB. They really are superbly built but I'm blowed if I can understand how to do it from the Freeware manual.

There seems to be so many car variants available. Understand the DMBS (etc) notation but what is the half and some of the 4-car vehicles contain the term 2 cars??? All I want is a 4-car, a 2-car set a 2-car+4-car and a 4-car+4-car.

I must be getting old..........

To make up the 4 EPB you need FP 4EPB 2car Blue DMBS (DRB) + FP 4EPB Blue TSO 1 (DRB) + FP 4EPB Blue TSO 2 (DRB) + FP 4EPB 2car Blue DMBS (DRB)
For the 2 HAP it's FP 2HAP Blue DMBS (DRB) + FP 2HAP Blue DTCL (DRB)
For the 2 EPB it's FP 4EPB 2car Half Blue DMBS (DRB) + FP 4EPB Half Blue DTSO (DRB)

The DMBS in both 4 and 2 car sets is almost the same vehicle except the 2 Car sets have a Black Triangle on the front of the unit.
The black triangle is for the station staff to tell them there is no Guards Van at the other end of the set.

Hope this helps

Peter

[PWHolmes]

Thanks everybody. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Now then..... how do I lay third rail?? I don't seem to be able to find it a loft, and what offset value do I use?

[PWHolmes]

Just ne thing, Peter.

Assembling the units as you suggest would result in a 2-car EPB unit with first class. but 4-car EPB unit that is second class only - is that correct??

[gptech]

Just ne thing, Peter.

Assembling the units as you suggest would result in a 2-car EPB unit with first class. but 4-car EPB unit that is second class only - is that correct??

Yes and no, the formations are correct but your reading is slightly out: the 2EPB and 4EPB formations in Peters suggestion are all second class vehicles (DMBS, TSO, DTSO) but the 2HAP has a first class section (DMBS, DTCL)

In real life 4EPBs (class 415) were suburban units, and as such only had one class, and even though a small number of the trailers had been built as composite vehicles these were downgraded albeit left at the slighty wider compartment size than standard second class (OK, lets be picky---third class)
2EPBs (class 416) followed the single class seating arrangement, with the exception of those vehicles originally built for the Tyneside electric lines but this was also down graded when the units migrated south.
2HAPs (class 414) were classed as part of the express fleet, often working in multiple with 4CEP units. These did originally feature a first class compartment which was downgraded on some units but then upgraded back when they became part of the 4CAP (class 413) units. Ten of the DMBS cars were later converted to become the class 489 driving trailers for the Gatwick Express service, working with FO and SO coaches and a class 73.

Confusing, ain't it?

[tubemad]

Thanks for that little insight, I did wonder what the HAPs were for myself!

Is a little confusing Southern stock, I still haven't quite understood if the loco hauled Gat-Ex coaching stock MK2's are 'EMU's or not. The Class 489 is supposed to be paired with a 488, the 488 I assume are the MK2's but are unpowered though...yes? If so I can't understand why they would be classed as 488...

Signed:

A confused Westerner, in the land where everything is simple!

[JasVick]

The 488/489 combos are slightly different, in that they had extra jumpers etc fitted to enable them to be push pull with 73s. The GUVs were converted to provide luggage space and guards area. I think if I remember rightly, 488s were TSOs, 489s had a first class added. They ran in as a rule fixed formations, generally a 488/489/GUV combo although regularly had an extra 3 car set to make them 8 cars. If I also recall, the GUVs did have a small motor output and where also fitted with shoes to prevent the 73 getting gapped if my memory serves me!

[gptech]

The 488s were converted from conventional coaching stock, MkIIFs. 488/2 being 2 car sets which have first and second class seating, 488/3 are 3 car sets with just second class seating; they recieved a 'unit' classification as they were more or less permanantly coupled. The 489s were used as baggage cars (marshalled at the London end of the train) rather than having first class accomodation added, but they did retain their motors and were used for propulsion in tandem with the class 73.

[749006]

The 488 were arranged in sets so they could be treated like other Southern Region units for maintenance.

And to confuse things slightly more the Southern Region also had 4 CAP units. http://www.flickr.com/photos/wagn1/6716 ... 915840839/
From wikipedia
The British Rail Class 413 (or 4Cap) units were formed from 1982 by permanently coupling two Class 414 2Hap units together. There were two sub-classes of units: class 413/2, units 3201 - 3213, converted in 1982 from phase 1 2 HAP units 6001-6049. These units were formed DTCsoL - MBSO - MBSO - DTCsoL, with the former driving equipment of the DMBSO decommissioned, giving the new designation; and class 413/3, units 3301 -3311 ( formed 1982) and 3321 - 3325 (formed 1991), converted from the later phase 2 build units 6050 - 6173. These units were formed with the DMBSO outermost giving the formation, DMBSO - TCsoL - TCsoL - DMBSO, with the centre vehicles again having their driving equipment decommissioned.

At first they look like two 2 car sets but the ends of the inner cabs were painted blue to remind the staff not to split them..

This page on Wikipedia has more info on Southern units
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Br ... it_classes

[PWHolmes]

Like most folk from north of the Thames, I always considered Southern Region EMUs to be homogenous and gave them scant regard. I maybe should have paid more attention!!

However, I seem to be getting somewhere at least in putting units together (although trying to create a Brighton - Victoria service a la 1980s is proving to be very taxing as I keep on crashing with a dump file, whatever that is. I suppose that eventually after about 3 weeks wasted time I will give up like I have every other attempt to create a realistic scenario.

I seem to have created a 2EPB+2EPB consist with a driver in all 4 cabs!!! How do I get rid of the three unwanted ones and put a red blind at the back??

[gptech]

I seem to have created a 2EPB+2EPB consist with a driver in all 4 cabs!!! How do I get rid of the three unwanted ones and put a red blind at the back??

The driver is assigned by a section in the .bin file, so you'd need to copy the existing .bin and rename it with -nd after the existing name but before the .bin extension. For example, 2EPB_DMOS.bin would become 2EPB_DMOS-nd.bin

*The use of -nd is not compulsary but it has become the convention through usage.

Then you'd have to edit the -nd version by removing the driver section. RW Tools makes this fairly easy, look towards the bottom of the .bin, in the <children> section for:

Code: Select all

						<cEntityContainerBlueprint-sChild d:id="15035744">
							<ChildName d:type="cDeltaString">Driver</ChildName>
							<BlueprintID>
								<iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
									<BlueprintSetID>
										<iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
											<Provider d:type="cDeltaString">Kuju</Provider>
											<Product d:type="cDeltaString">Railsimulator</Product>
										</iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
									</BlueprintSetID>
									<BlueprintID d:type="cDeltaString">Scenery\Characters\TrainDriver00_01.xml</BlueprintID>
								</iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
							</BlueprintID>
							<Matrix>
								<cHcRMatrix4x4>
									<Element>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F0BF" d:precision="string">-1</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F03F" d:precision="string">1</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F0BF" d:precision="string">-1</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000809543EBBF" d:precision="string">-0.852</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000606666F63F" d:precision="string">1.4</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000A099992140" d:precision="string">8.8</e>
										<e d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F03F" d:precision="string">1</e>
									</Element>
								</cHcRMatrix4x4>
							</Matrix>
						</cEntityContainerBlueprint-sChild>

and delete it. Save the file and you'll now have a driverless version.

The red blind bit is assigned by the numbering, off the top off my head I can't remember the original letter used but in scenario editor if you double click the coach and go to the right hand flyout you'll see the number displayed; it'll look something like 658713, with the last 2 digits being the code displayed on the front. Once you know which is the right letter for the red box just edit this to read (assuming r=red) 6587rr.

It's a long time back but I went through the EPB stock and simplified (to me at least) how the various classes were arranged in the folder structure (I altered it all so it was arranged by class)



but I did find that the original files didn't always display the red, white and black boxes correctly.