Atomic Systems

Hello all,

I've come up with this scenario that has extremely tight times as per the timetable, but with sticking to the speed limit, it is impossible to stick to the timetable, although looking in Real Time Trains the service I'm basing it on seems to struggle to keep to time anyway.

I'd like to keep the times in and just let myself run late, not much I can do about it, it's what happens, but you would of course get a red 'X' by the scenario in the list. Is anyone here on a mission to get green ticks on everything?

I don't see the point in it to be honest. When I used MSTS I liked to make some activities starting off late, and have all stations set to your booked times, was always fun to see how late you were and how much time you could try and claw back. But of course you never failed an activity, you just got a report at the end so you could see your performance.

I'll no doubt release it as is with the times as they are, anyone who prefers to have a gold cup perfect finish should go elsewhere!

The thing that annoys me most is a scenario that cannot be completed. I don't mean difficult but those that require the player to drive in a manner that would lead to complaints by passengers yet still fail. You can achieve the kind of thing you're suggesting by putting the booked times in the briefing and not putting timetabled instructions in that cannot be complied with. Even if the timings are from a real timetable, we gave no guarantee that model performance is realistic and there is always the caveat in real life that a train isn't late until it's more than so far behind the booked time. If I downloaded this scenario it would be deleted in short order.

Keith

I try and ignore the tick or cross - for me the fun is not in 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' outcome, just in doing the scenario and enjoying it. If I've enjoyed it I'll run it again sometime.

What annoys me is the fact it says 'you failed to make a station stop' if you are running late in a timetabled scenario even though you actually did so yes the red cross after doing a scenario is annoying and makes it unrealistic as far as I am concerned, but that is a fault with the sim and not the scenario authors, but admittedly this does mean that I tend to avoid timetabled scenarios like the plague, either that or edit the timetabled stops to un-timetabled stops in the editor.

Likewise, I ignore both as they are pointless as far as driving the sim is concerned.

I ignore them as so many so called failures are nothing of the sort. Just use as a reminder of which ones I have played, although that is not that useful now as a few months ago all the ticks vanished.

Once I've driven the scenario and failed to complete it then I go into the editor and look at the timetable. If the timings are all red then I know that I'm never going to able to complete it. I will then alter the timetable until it can be done or, if it's to much to do, I just bin it.

My own opinion is that the problem with timetabled scenario's is, as others have pointed out, that the physics and the simulation of events are not accurate enough to reflect real life. It is all well and good having a real world times to go by; but it doesn't work out so well with the simulator as it stands at present. I like scenario's that are a challenge and like Keith, I do not expect to have to drive like a maniac to complete it. That to me defeats the whole idea of realistic (or as close as you can get to it ) simulation.

It is a pity that the editor doesn't have two time slots. One for the booked time and a second giving the permissible late allowance timing. Perhaps DG might build it in to the editor in the future (no holding of breath for this!).

Good morning
Thank you James for raising this topic
I have been perplexed by my inability to complete some scenarios
As Dave commented some fail you because the timings are extremely tight on station stops
Sometimes I've exceeded the speed limits causing me to over shoot the platform
I have come across some scenarios that say I didn't make the stop even though I did
I suppose there are some more mysterious reasons for failing a scenario
I admit I prefer to see a green tick against a scenario rather than a red cross
Kind regards Stephen

yerkes wrote:I try and ignore the tick or cross - for me the fun is not in 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' outcome, just in doing the scenario and enjoying it. If I've enjoyed it I'll run it again sometime.

Same for me Michael.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest if I get a tick or a cross. I am more interested in the accuracy of and enjoyment derived from a scenario rather than some notion of success at the end of it.

Regards,

My philosophy these days is just to timetable stops that can be realistically completed on time and don't timetable stops that can't. After all, the only real point of making a stop timetabled is for the doors to close at a specific time. If you still wish the player to know what the timetable is, just list the times in the scenario briefing.

phat2003uk wrote:My philosophy these days is just to timetable stops that can be realistically completed on time and don't timetable stops that can't. After all, the only real point of making a stop timetabled is for the doors to close at a specific time. If you still wish the player to know what the timetable is, just list the times in the scenario briefing.

I do the same, in fact I've started to leave more and more time (as with the Railmotor scenarios) so you can complete them while driving at a "sensible" pace, not having to accelerate to 0.9mph over the limit as soon as possible and sit exactly there until you slam on the brakes to arrive within a second of the listed time. The drag racing style of scenario is just not realistic.

Its all about the experience of driving trains for me, if I wanted to play a scored game I would look elsewhere. I use timetabled stops in my scenarios to help regulate the interaction with other trains and as phat2003uk says to regulate the length of station stops as well as to follow a realtime timetable. This often makes it impossible to be successful in completing the scenario with a green tick, but does produce a very satisfying drive.

Sadly this was one of the reasons I decided to stop sharing my scenarios with the community, most people seemed more interested in the outcome of the scenario rather than the actual content and realistic playability of it.

You're bound to get a whole range of thoughts on this, as you do with any feature of the game. There is no right or wrong POV since virtually everyone will drive a different way.

For me, donny, a scenario with a timetable that cannot be maintained no matter how hard (or how unrealistically) I drive is a bad one and there's absolutely no satisfaction in using it. It's why I never got into RSC's Career Scenarios, which, although improved lately, used to be more like a run round Brands Hatch than any train on British railways! As I wrote at the start of the thread, I don't have a problem with scenarios that are hard to complete and which might take more than one attempt to find a way to keep time but I can't raise any interest in one where the stops are unachievable. If the timings are impossible, why bother making it timetabled in the first place? I don't care whether the timetable being used is correct if the performance of the model, whether it's acceleration or braking, isn't realistic and it can't do the job. Timetables are built around the performance of the trains expected to operate them so why put the cart before the horse in RailWorks?

Keith

Interesting replies guys!

Yes that's the other thing it marks you off for not stopping at the station. Can't imagine a controller at Victoria telling the driver of 2E32 or something from Victoria to Epsom, leaving Victoria late due to the late inbound service, 'Oi, why didn't you stop at Battersea Park, Clapham, Wandsworth Common, Balham...' etc

The branch in question is up to Braintree, I can't see on Real Time Trains if it manages the stations OK as they are all 'No Report' but they reach Braintree on time, as I manage to due to the terminal slack allowance. The stations inbetween are a lot harder, plus you have to exceed the limit upon passing the level crossings, as RW can't understand that the speed limit doesn't apply for the entire length of the train.

I'll knock the times off for stations after Witham, you can just about do the other stations, only really do-able if you know the traction and can brake at the right time. Braking too early will see you late, but you don't need 2 miles to stop, nor do you need emergency brakes to be on time.

In real life the Trains performance is measured at the end popint of the journey, or at specific points on the journey if its a long one, not at every Station stop. One interesting way to check this is to get a real timetable from open train times. This shows the "passenger" times and the WTT times as well as allowances. the WWT and public times do vary slightly. On one journey from Perth to Edinburgh we were 7mins down according to the WTT but arrived early at Waverley.

Therefore I would have thought that timetabling stops would be a good thing to enable the scenarios to follow closely to prototypical practice and maybe help the AI dispatcher!!! Then make certain points on the journey critical to the out come.

An example would be an express run on one of the longer lines with one intermediate stop, say Bristol to Exeter stopping at Taunton. The Taunton stop would be non critical time wise, just confirm the stop has occurred, but the Exeter stop should be within the allocated or published time for the stop in the scenario.

I like to drive as I Think that a real driver would do. Driving to the conditions and signals. an example would be on a controlled approach to actually slow down, as would happen IRL, in response to a warning signal and not blindly continue as full pelt knowing the next danger signal will clear on approach. (although this does happen on the 09:15 perth - dundee service if the linkswood fuel has just gone though at the barnhill home signal).