Barrier coaches?

[smarty2]

Well thanks for pointing out my artistic licence there fella's! Seems I should go for Mk1 BG, that should suffice yes? York made emu's so I could use the 317 instead, and just stable them at Donny works for the final leg up to York? Just need the TPR for a relay scenario.

[749006]

Well thanks for pointing out my artistic licence there fella's! Seems I should go for Mk1 BG, that should suffice yes? York made emu's so I could use the 317 instead, and just stable them at Donny works for the final leg up to York? Just need the TPR for a relay scenario.

When the 321 EMU comes out you will be able to have all of them as Doncaster Works carried out the refurbishment.
Also Doncaster works refurbed most of the Mk3 coaches and DVT's for each of the current operators

[smarty2]

That's not 70's era though is it. Just out of interest, what would my trains designation be for the headcode? It would have a Z in there would it?

[rfletcher72]

That's not 70's era though is it. Just out of interest, what would my trains designation be for the headcode? It would have a Z in there would it?

If your working was a one-off Martin, and was inter-regional (SR to ER), then I'm pretty sure it would carry a Z designation. Specials within the ER at that time I think carried a G designation. If I'm right on how you might play this given the use of the BG as barriers, the train would be fully braked and would therefore be a Class 5 working (nominally ECS), ie. 5Zxx.

In various WTTs of the era, paths were inserted for CM&EE use for the movement of stock to/from works and these workings were obviously relatively frequent for them to appear in the printed document. For the ECML at that time for instance, there was a booked class 5 path IIRC from Ferme Park to York Yard, with a stop at Doncaster to detach when required. A return working appears also. I can get the exact details if needed. With relevance to your scenario, if the movement of the EMUs was deemed to be a regular occurence, then if inter-regional (for instance again, SR to ER), it should appear in the WTT as 5Exx (and 5Oxx return).

I remember Class 313 units on their way back from overhaul at York (IIRC) to Hornsey being hauled through Donny.

Thinking on my post of yesterday, I seem to recall that this was a booked Q (as required) working, 7X02? . Being a Class 7 train, this would indicate a slower speed, which ties in with the use of the Conflat barriers and their lower maximum speed, as alluded to by 749006. EDIT: The X can sometimes denote a movement that is out of gauge (3rd rail shoes?).

Also the mention of the 321 at Doncaster is entirely relevant (and of course the 321/9s are daily visitors). When these were completed at BREL York, they were tested on the ECML between there and Newark Northgate. Again (yawn), paths appeared in the WTTs of the time. They also tested the 320s in the same way, I have some photos of each class at Doncaster on test somewhere. Plus NSE livered Class 317s on reliefs from to KX to York, but I'll stop now as I could go on for ever

Hope the above helps

[chriscooper]

The speed for dragging an EMU will mainly depend on the braking system on the unit. Older EMUs had electropnumatic brakes and also a traditional automatic air brake, and with the previously mentioned pipe extensions the automatic air brake on the loco could be connected to that on the unit and the unit would then act as hauled stock. 390s also have an automatic air brake to allow dragging with a loco. Modern EMUs though just have electropnumatic brakes, which in the case of pre-BR stock aren't even compatable with other manufacturers units let alone locos. They have a hose to connect a main reservoir supply from a loco, but this is just to allow release of the parking brake and will not provide any control over the units brakes. In these cases only the loco and barrier wagons will be braked, the latter linked with a through pipe layed through the unit, which will provide limited braking force and also brake continuity along the train length (so the brakes will still apply in the event of a split). Due to the limited braking force, speed will be restricted, usually to between 30 and 40mph. In some cases further restrictions may be in place due to gauge issues.

[smarty2]

Thanks for the information Richard, didn't yawn actually! I found it informative and interesting and more importantly very helpful.

@ Chris:
The 4Cig's I'm dragging are blue gray circa late 70's early 80's versions. So......?

[rfletcher72]

Thanks for the information Richard, didn't yawn actually! I found it informative and interesting and more importantly very helpful.

Thank you Martin, more than happy to assist.

For the ECML at that time for instance, there was a booked class 5 path IIRC from Ferme Park to York Yard, with a stop at Doncaster to detach when required. A return working appears also. I can get the exact details if needed

.

For any other budding scenario writers out there (me included ), the train in question was the 5L30 SX 1120 from Holloway Carriage Sidings to York Yard South, running via Ferme Park and calling at Doncaster (West Yard) to detach as required - on MO it terminated at Doncaster full stop (headcode 5D30). Maximum speed was timed at 45MPH. The return train was 5A00 SX 1830 from York Clifton to Ferme Park CS (downside via a reversal at Kings Cross FT). Again the train called at Doncaster to attach as required, and interestingly, there was also a booked stop to attach/detach at Newark Northgate.

There was also a second working noted: 5L12 MO 0900 from Norwich to Holgate Sidings (the yard on the downside as you approach York, after Dringhouses and before the bridge). This ran via the joint line from March and called at Doncaster if required. The return ran ThO, 5P16 1820 York Clifton to Yarmouth - calling in at Doncaster Decoy then onto the joint line from there. Again, maximum speed was 45MPH.

All the above appears in the 1977/8 WTT.

Happy days