Realistic Operation

[engineerbj]

Hello one and all,

One of my favorite things to do is to run on the Western Lines of Scotland (great route, that) with a little 3F Jinty (the meshtools DLC one) with a longish string of unfitted freight wagons in Free Roam, running a "Pickup Goods" up and down the length of the route, and whenever I do, I try and keep things as realistic as is feasible within the limitations of the simulator.

My question is, in regards to working an unfitted freight, what sort of whistle signals would you use to tell the guard back in the brake van to put on his brake, and then to take it back off again? Usually, I just give six blasts before I toggle the brake on going down a stiff grade, then a long before releasing at the bottom to keep the couplings from snatching. And would such a train be run in real life, or would they have used a larger engine such as a 5?

I have fun running the Jinty, so it really doesn't matter, but I am curious.

[longbow]

I don't think there was any standard for whistle signals ('crows'). For a goods service on a main line a tender engine would be more appropriate than a Jinty I would think.

If an unfitted service was descending a steep gradient it would likely stop at the top to pin down wagon brakes.

[rkk01]

One of the BBC Wales channels (BBC2 Cymru?) has been using a four part series on the effect of Beeching in Wales as a filler Very, very informative mix of archive footage and railway staff interviews, including stories of running goods trains on the very steep valleys goods lines. One driver was describing when he had a Pannier run away because the guard hadn't pinned down the brakes properly...!

Worth a quick search on IPlayer

[749006]

On very steep gradients there would be an "Apply Wagon Brakes" board where the train would stop and the Guard would apply sufficient Hand Brakes on the wagons so the Driver could control the train speed.
On a normal route the Guard would know the route like the driver and he would apply the Hand Brake inside his Guards Van when running downhill.
It was not necessary for the Driver to Whistle for Brakes as the Train would have to be at a stop to apply anything but the Guards Van Brakes.

[engineerbj]

Well, over here in the States, we seem to have a whistle signal for everything, including one for having the brakemen set and release the hand-brakes on the cars, which goes back to the days before air brakes were installed or reliable. I know that most unfitted UK rolling stock, at least in the era I'm running the WSOL and other UK steam-era routes I have for TS2014, are braked via a hand lever on the side of the cars, which makes braking them on the fly as we used to do over here impractical and unsafe (heard many a story about the stick-men at Toton Yard getting hurt or killed from trying to brake the wagons down the hump before the retarders were installed), but I did know the guard had his brake in the van, and from an interview I saw in the Classic Trains series, one guard said you pretty well left it up to the driver unless you were being checked at a signal and needed assistance to stop, so I naturally was curious if there was any sort of whistle signal for that, which apparently there isn't...

Only reason I used six was from watching Dan Snow's History of the Railways. In Program 3, Dan get's to try his hand stopping a train (on the Bluebell I think) just using the handbrake on the engine and the handbrake in the guard's compartment in one of the coaches. He gave six shorts on the tooter when he wanted the guard to put on the brake, so I assumed that might've been the standard, perhaps an honest mistake on my part.

[Rockdoc2174]

There must have been whistle codes but I don't know what they were. In 1967, for example, I went on the "Farewell To Steam On The LSWR" railtour and it went to Swanage on the outward trip. The length of the train meant it couldn't be run round so a Standard 4MT-T was attached to the rear. When the time came to return to the main line, the driver of the West Country at the front of the train gave four short and one long blast on the whistle, repeated immediately to give ten in all. The first time nothing happened but, a few minutes later, the whistle sounded the same code a second time, the tank returned an identical code and the train moved off.

Keith

[749006]

The railway did operate whith whistle codes being used all the time.
When trains were banked up an incline - like Lickey - the rear locos would buffer up to the train and then whistle a code which the train loco then repeated.

[engineerbj]

Right, I knew that bankers used whistle signals, double and triple-headers too, with the lead engine in charge of braking/issuing orders. We have similar practices over here, and for the same reason, there's no such thing as multiple working with steam locos. (Interestingly, there is an MU box that can be retrofitted to steamers that can allow them to control any diesel helpers in the consist, basically has a switch with 8 notches for throttle/dynamic brake, a field switch for the traction motors, and an emergency transmitter to trigger the FRED on the rear end to dump the air for an emergency brake application

I'm sure the information I'm looking for is out there, not that I'm rabid about it, mind, and I have other questions I'd like to ask about operations, such as this: Were TPO's only used on dedicated mail trains, such as the famed Night Mail from the old LMS
documentary? Or could one be hooked onto any train? Furthermore, would a non-dedicated train pick up mail and parcels, i.e. on a local branch passenger run.

Could someone also explain what sorts of stock one might find on a parcels train? I've heard about them, but I'm not sure whether to put goods vans or passenger cars on one if I wanted to run one in the sim, nor what sort of schedule such a service would keep to.

[Merlin75]

http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/sca ... o%20SA.pdf This has some information on whistle codes.

[749006]

Could someone also explain what sorts of stock one might find on a parcels train? I've heard about them, but I'm not sure whether to put goods vans or passenger cars on one if I wanted to run one in the sim, nor what sort of schedule such a service would keep to.

The Parcel vans that were used on such train were dedicated vehicles - sort of like the Baggage Cars found on US Trains.
In BR days they were of the GUV - General Utility Van and CCT - Covered Carriage Truck also a least one Brake vehicle would be included in the train for the Train Guard to ride in.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoul ... 685795313/
From the loco is a SR CCT, Mk1 BG, GWR Siphon, MK1 BG, 3 GUV, Mk1 BG.

The info on these pages might be useful
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-mail.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Utility_Van

Hope this helps

Peter

[engineerbj]

Okay, I'll have a look. Thanks, everybody, your help is greatly appreciated!

I might have a few more questions soon, but I think I'm all right for now.