AP/Waggonz GA Class 90 coming from RSC?

[jimmyshand]

In summary the big difference between RSC and AP is that RSC are a mass production factory and AP are like a custom build workshop.

If you order something custom built by a master craftsman then you know you're getting something handmade with precision care and every detail will be scrutinised and measured down to microns.

If you order something from a factory then you know you're getting something mass produced on a production line with little more than maybe a cursory glance by a quality controller.

If the craftsman gets recruited by the factory and abandons his workshop then the pressures, deadlines and schedules of factory life mean that he won't have the time to take the same care and love over his work that he used to.

This is exactly what we get with Railworks! You know when you buy something from RSC that it's not going to have much in the way of attention to detail and craftsmanship quality. But, if it's an item that's 'up your street' then you know you'll at least get some use out of it and so you part with your cash. If it's really bad then you can always give it to the master craftsman to tidy up (AP soundpacks)!!

When you buy something from AP then you know you're going to get something that is hand-crafted with no detail left unchecked. So good is the quality of these products that you'll even buy items that are not 'up your street' just to sample the amazing quality (Pacer)!!

[lenfish]

We should all have seen this coming. It's surely no coincidence that TS2014 now contains .AP files.

Regards,

Len

[bdy26]

It's obviously sold well and RSC want a piece of the action. As this was the only livery variant left to do, it's £11.99 for a reskin. If you already own the 90 I don't see any real point in buying - so don't and don't complain!

In fairness to RSC they've done a sterling job on GEML though rather limited themselves stock wise - AP are in there again with a 321.

It shows that if you make a well thought out product that suits more than 1 route over a range of eras and with decent features it will sell. Good luck and fair play to Richard.

B

[GatwickSpotting]

I wanted to avoid getting sucked into this thread, but since the last few pages have just turned completely silly I feel I have to say something. Regardless of whether or not this pack will be worth it for those of you who've already purchased the original 90 pack from AP, I would like to add the following.

I've been working along side Armstrong Powerhouse for over three years now, in this time I've been approached by and worked with quite a few other developers/publishers. I can safely say Richard is one of the most if not THE most passionate developer you'll find in this community. and here's my reasoning.

Someone in it for the money does not:
• Remove multiple products, some of which selling very well, from his store due to him feeling they're too old and don't offer the same value for money or quality you expect from AP in the current times.
• Delay multiple releases because he feels the product could be improved, and will work until it is as close to perfection as possible.
• Work at a loss on some products such as the 37/9, simply because its such an incredible engine/loco combination (closing a railway and hiring locos, carriages, fuel and drivers for a day doesn't come cheap).
• Request extremely small errors in my work, such as not having the right amount of holes on a vent, be fixed (you won't find that level of care in any other publisher).
• Spend days going through multiple minute colour revisions on liveries, to ensure they look just right in every circumstance.

This is a man that gets his kicks and takes great pride in delivering incredible quality to the community, I know if I were to present him with something on par with RSC's latest releases he'd simply refuse to sell it on his store, no matter how popular it may be. He's even been discussing the possibility of doing a 'charity' release, in order to raise money to get a particular preserved train back onto the mainline.

So what about this release on Steam?
As previously mentioned this wasn't entirely an AP/Waggonz initiative. It's up to them to divulge the details on it if they so wish, but I know everyone here would agree with the decision of AP/Waggonz to release this on Steam, given their options.

Does this mean the 321 and future products will be sold the same way?
The final choice rests in the hands of the developer, but I know AP much prefers to keep everything in one pack, as do I.

Why didn't AP include these reskins in the original 90 pack too, or just put the full Class 90 pack on steam?
It's well known that Steam/RSC ask for exclusivity in distribution. This means anything sold through the RSC Partner Program, cannot be the same as something sold via third party.

So will the value for money of AP packs be going down from now on?
Interestingly, they've never been better value for money. The £4.99 a Soundpack has been going since AP first started, now look at the quality of the latest Pro Packs and think how much more you're getting for the same price as that of 2-3 years ago.

But you work for AP, so surely you're biased?
Perhaps, but ask anyone that's worked with Richard and you'll get the same answers no doubt. I have not been asked or pushed to post anything here 'defending' AP, however they're the only publisher that encourages and supports the quality of DLC I wish to make, and I would not like to see some of the comments on this thread become accepted as truth.

In summary, if I felt Richard, Armstrong Powerhouse or Waggonz were looking to dupe their customers out of a quick buck, I would not be working with any of them. However I've seen first hand how much they care about the quality of their work above all others. And on that note, I feel there's little more that needs to be discussed on the matter, and the subject should revert to the GA Class 90 Pack, and its contents. Not the motivations behind its distribution.

[growler37]

The problem with a lot of threads on here is,bringing personalities into disscusion instead of keeping comments to the product in question,this leads to comments being taken personaly,and we all know were that gets us.
So,i have no problem with AP taking this approach,in fact it could be a huge benefit,AP products are excellent,the Class 90 is now the benchmark on which other DLC should be judged,and RSC,s products in particular,which smack of the "quick buck chuck" ethos,maybe,just maybe, some of AP,s excellence, will rub off on RSC,s quality in future products,but to be honest i will not be holding my breath
Regards
Kev

[150227]

Back on topic - I've noticed from the screenshots that the GA 90s do not have branding or nameplates. Will a free, downloadable patch be issued (be it on here, on AP's site or a different site) to add these, like on the 142 and the original 90 pack?

[Tankski]

In summary, if I felt Richard, Armstrong Powerhouse or Waggonz were looking to dupe their customers out of a quick buck, I would not be working with any of them. However I've seen first hand how much they care about the quality of their work above all others. And on that note, I feel there's little more that needs to be discussed on the matter, and the subject should revert to the GA Class 90 Pack, and its contents. Not the motivations behind its distribution.

Can't agree more. Having also worked alongside Richard for a good few years too, I can attest that Richard will pick up on discrepancies between a model and a photograph (sometimes to my annoyance ). He is certainly enthusiastic for his work and won't accept for a shoddy job, as Jordi has mentioned.

The irrationality that has been shown from some people when the acronym "RSC" is mentioned in this thread is astonishing and others are just jumping to conclusions that simply aren't true. If the discussion was about the pack and not the choice of distribution and/or partnership with RSC we wouldn't be in a case where AP has been lambasted for even trying to function as a business.

[89001]

I know it's possibly another £12 or so, but in my mind the AP/Waggonz guys deserve that. Can't wait for the 321 now ...

[starmedia]

We REALLY, really do need to take heed of this phrase of what Jordi said earlier ...

So what about this release on Steam?
As previously mentioned this wasn't entirely an AP/Waggonz initiative. It's up to them to divulge the details on it if they so wish, but I know everyone here would agree with the decision of AP/Waggonz to release this on Steam, given their options.

And tread carefully with the comments here so as not to cause any ill feeling between any parties, I can almost imagine the "options" given ...

There's not a lot left to say here in light of that !

Good luck to AP with this version of the c90, I almost certainly WILL buy as I'm into the era to which it relates, I'm fairly optimistic that GA branding patches will appear, as per the c360 the very next day after release, as if it was always meant to be there

[phat2003uk]

There shouldn't be any bad feeling towards RSC, they have acted fair and courteous throughout but sometimes one needs to make the right decision to protect a year's worth of work.

[david1]

But you work for AP, so surely you're biased?Perhaps, but ask anyone that's worked with Richard and you'll get the same answers no doubt.

Someone in it for the money does not:• Remove multiple products, some of which selling very well, from his store due to him feeling they're too old and don't offer the same value for money or quality you expect from AP in the current times.• Delay multiple releases because he feels the product could be improved, and will work until it is as close to perfection as possible.• Work at a loss on some products such as the 37/9, simply because its such an incredible engine/loco combination (closing a railway and hiring locos, carriages, fuel and drivers for a day doesn't come cheap).• Request extremely small errors in my work, such as not having the right amount of holes on a vent, be fixed (you won't find that level of care in any other publisher).• Spend days going through multiple minute colour revisions on liveries, to ensure they look just right in every circumstance.This is a man that gets his kicks and takes great pride in delivering incredible quality to the community

I will second the above, i am more than happy with the 90 base pack best release anywhere in my view, not bothered about GA livery being sold through steam could be that i am not really intrested in this livery as is stuck to one route, but will buy the Freightliner livery if this comes out wether it be from AP website or via steam.

Keep up the fantastic work Richard, TS world would be pretty dull without your work.

[220389]

Back on topic - I've noticed from the screenshots that the GA 90s do not have branding or nameplates. Will a free, downloadable patch be issued (be it on here, on AP's site or a different site) to add these, like on the 142 and the original 90 pack?

I imagine it might be a file coming onto here for that. Unless AP have the right to do so for the steam release.

I look forward to the product coming onto steam, as it will help those who are not as aware of 3rd party sites and allow them to gain access to a brilliant locomotive.
Although i still have the feeling, if it was a RSC product and they did it, there would be a lot more moans and a 'protest' reskin put up in place though. But that is just my personal opinion though.

Also i second what GatwickSpotting & Tankski has put as well.

Chris

[leesussex]

I totally agree with Gatwickspotting here, I am sorry it is only fair, and I have no quibble paying £11 or so for the GEML 90, remember you are getting scenarios as well. The way people are carrying on is like they've been done out of something, when in fact they haven't, AP has made It quite clear from the start.

Now is there any news on how long it will be until its released and how log the 321 will be ?

Lee

[lenfish]

Now is there any news........ how long the 321 will be ?
Lee

Around 260ft (4 coaches).

Regards,

Len

[bdy26]

*I'm here all week, try the veal"

I suspect someone will patch it, but I've given up correcting RSCs shortcomings.

B