Atomic Systems

phat2003uk wrote: This extra pack simply offers a little more for anyone who is happy to pay the price for the extra liveries/scenarios......................

Don't mind paying for the extra liveries and scenarios but as an owner of the original loco I'm effectively having to pay for the same loco again?

Regards,

Len

Dave4468 wrote:The 90 is a lovely model and all that but am I paying another £11.99 for a livery when I've already paid £14.99 for the standard AP pack?

Has pricing been announced then?

firetrap1 wrote:Class 90:
- Blue/white (S): Ex-ONE livery with evidence of the old stripes branding (standard headlights)
- Blue/white: Ex-ONE livery without any evidence of the old stripes branding (new LED headlights)
- Grey/white: Ex-NXEA livery (standard and new LED headlights)

Mk3 coaches:
- Blue/white: Ex-ONE livery without any evidence of the old stripes branding
- Grey/white: Ex-NXEA livery

Mk3 DVT:
- Blue/white (S): Ex-ONE livery with evidence of the old stripes branding
- Blue/white: Ex-ONE livery without any evidence of the old stripes branding
- Grey/white: Ex-NXEA livery

Quite a few £11.99s in there then......

Did anybody actually expect free liveries from Waggonz/AP for this?...didn't you get more than your moneys worth in the initial release?

At times UKTS members can be their own worst enemies.

It's simply up to you whether the price this pack will be sold at reflects how much you value the extra liveries and scenarios. If not, simply don't purchase it. No-one is forcing anyone to pay for anything again. If we purchased everything we wanted in this world we'd be bankrupt.

Even if I say so myself, need I remind people that this is an exceptional quality product that really doesn't deserve the haranguing it's getting on here. No-one has lost anything.

Given the good value of the original pack I don't see an issue with this either, although I will admit that the original pack more covers my era. Importantly Waggonz/AP will not only gain extra revenue directly from this, but it will probably introduce a lot more people to the rest of their add-ons/upgrades, which can only be a good thing for the sim and for us, as there will be even more incentive to produce these. My biggest worry would be RSC inadvertently introducing problems as seems to have happened in the past, and of course the issue of timely updates through steam.

Looked at another way I suppose the extra sales will generate more money to go towards the production of future AP/Waggonz releases, which can only be welcomed going by the high quality of the 90 and 142. I just wish it had been made a bit clearer in advance that the GA liveries would be sold separately.

I'm not completely up to speed on East Anglian liveries but doesn't this RSC GA single livery already come with the standalone AP version of the class 90?

Well I'd better stand back up again...

As I said I'm not bashing the product, the product is excellent. What I'm not liking is that fact on one hand AP have produced an excellent model which is easily worth the money charged but on the other hand another variation is out and we need to be buying twice if we want a, lets be honest, fairly important livery for a recent piece of DLC. I can understand why AP want their products to go via Steam but why like this? Why could it not have gone through Steam as the full pack?

As I said, I didn't mind paying for the AP release but it would have been nice to know this was coming. I work for GA, not only do I work for GA but Mk3s and NRW to LST are on my route card so when the 90 plus GEML appeared it was brilliant. GEML liveries were why I wanted the 90, everything else in the pack livery wise was a bonus. If I knew a few weeks ago that the specific GA liveries were going to turn up in a stand alone pack then I wouldn't have bothered buying the AP one.

Will I buy this? Probably. Will I buy it and feel like this is fair? Not a chance. Will I buy the 321 when it comes out? Not a chance, not at least until there is either confirmation either way on if the same thing will happen.

More info from AP → https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 664&type=1

jimmyshand wrote:I'm not completely up to speed on East Anglian liveries but doesn't this RSC GA single livery already come with the standalone AP version of the class 90?

There are two variants of the One livery in there. This will be Greater Anglia as stated, don't know about NXEA though? Although I suppose the liveries are the same.

thetrainfan wrote:

jimmyshand wrote:I'm not completely up to speed on East Anglian liveries but doesn't this RSC GA single livery already come with the standalone AP version of the class 90?

There are two variants of the One livery in there. This will be Greater Anglia as stated, don't know about NXEA though? Although I suppose the liveries are the same.

Looks exactly the same as the one we've already got with the full pack to me! Maybe a bit of branding difference but that's not enough of a detail to justify a complete re-purchase.

The arrival of AP's products on Steam as an official RSC partner is, in my opinion, excellent news. Despite the success of the recent Class 90/DVT release, I would imagine AP's customer base is only a small percentage of everyone who owns Train Simulator, so there is a vast untapped market that has yet to experience their quality addons. If this GEML expansion pack is a success, it may lead to further collaboration between AP and RSC, and ultimately a greater number of releases.

As others have pointed out, this alternative pack takes absolutely no value away from the original AP release, and if you don't wish to purchase that is your choice. In some ways, this pack could actually be better value for a lot of people. With a standard AP addon or scenario pack, you need to already own a large chunk of DLC content to be able to run the included scenarios. The only requirements for this are going to be the GEML route. If you're someone that has only recently started out in TS2014, this will be a great addon.

I hold nothing against Waggonz and AP for doing what they have done. It makes commercial sense and helps the hobby thrive.

But, and there is a big BUT.

I still prefer AP for the simple fact that you can re-download, at will, AP products without having to do a 2 hour long 'vertify cache' then re-install all your mods again. Not to mention the outstanding support Richard provides with all his products. Long story short, I don't hold much hope for RSC keeping up the same pace and standards of service as AP. (How long did it take to update the class 67 to TS2013 standards, how long did it take to fix the buffers on WCML-N...Oh wait...)

I would much rather buy from AP direct, but that's just me...

chris

jimmyshand wrote:I'm not completely up to speed on East Anglian liveries but doesn't this RSC GA single livery already come with the standalone AP version of the class 90?

The liveries in the original pack are the ONE variants jimmy, dark blue and a lighter blue with the 'rainbow' stripes around the cab sides.



(Image from AP web site)

firetrap1 wrote:I still prefer AP for the simple fact that you can re-download, at will, AP products without having to do a 2 hour long 'vertify cache' then re-install all your mods again.

The .ap file format (this is going to get confusing, AP products---.ap files ) should, in theory, prevent modifications being wiped out after a verify--admittedly there's a fair bit of confusion about how all this works and whether it actually is working as intended at the moment but, early days as they say. It's not hard, time consuming nor expensive to archive any installers to CD/DVD/removable media/web based storage for easy re-installation, neither is producing backups of the full game or parts of it. The argument that you might be stuck if you lost your install for whatever reason (you're more likely to lose it because of a hardware failiure than anything RSC/Steam can do) just doesn't hold up now.
More importantly, having to do a verify should be the exception not the rule; if you find you're having to do it often you have a serious underlying problem that will probably have more to do with your setup or methodology than a problem in the software itself.

150227 wrote:Looked at another way I suppose the extra sales will generate more money to go towards the production of future AP/Waggonz releases, which can only be welcomed going by the high quality of the 90 and 142. I just wish it had been made a bit clearer in advance that the GA liveries would be sold separately.

I agree.
Thanks
Ross