RSC Deltic Prototype DP1

[jimmyshand]

As the Deltic is one of those rare diesel beasts being one that I've not had the privilege of sitting in, I can't say for sure whether the nose is visible from the drivers seat in the middle position. In my experience of sitting in two 37s, a 40 and a 45 I can assure you that not much nose is visible from the drivers seat, far less than shown in TS2013 models. From looking at the cab in the DP1 model, I can say that it looks pretty close. Just look to where the second man seat is and imagine where your head would be. Now look at pictures of real Deltics and look at where the drivers head is in the windscreen and side windows...

Looks like RSC and Kuju got it pretty close right from the start.

If you want to see DP1's nose... Raise the driver's seat. If you haven't got TrackIR (and why the hell not if you love sims), or can't be bothered to find out how to do that with the engine files, then you'll have to put up with realistically not being able to see the nose.

Easy as that really.

I've been lucky enough to 'cab' a Deltic on 2 occasions in the last 18 months. As the issue of the nose in Railworks has been a concern of mine since day one, it was the first thing I did, sit in the pilots seat and see if I could see nose! The answer was...yes I could...just!

When you think about the geometry then you simply have to see nose. The nose is a direct projection from (and follows the same shape as) the bottom of the cab window. In order to have forward vision of any kind then you have to at least be looking directly along the line of the nose. If you can't see any nose at all then you're effectively looking up into the sky and will have virtually zero visibility of the line ahead. Even at a small initial upward angle, this will only project higher and higher towards the sky the further out in front you are trying to look.

Another suprising thing in the Deltic cab was how compact it is and how close your head is to the windscreen when sat in the seat. A Deltic looks massive from the outside but the drivers position in the cab is very compact indeed.

The same thing applies to the similarly shaped class 37. I've confirmed on many an occasion that you can 100% see nose in the cab of a 37, although it must be said that the default RW viewpoint is far too high. I use the Trackir to lower the default view accordingly.

[SuperTux]

I've been lucky enough to 'cab' a Deltic on 2 occasions in the last 18 months. As the issue of the nose in Railworks has been a concern of mine since day one, it was the first thing I did, sit in the pilots seat and see if I could see nose! The answer was...yes I could...just!

When you think about the geometry then you simply have to see nose. The nose is a direct projection from (and follows the same shape as) the bottom of the cab window. In order to have forward vision of any kind then you have to at least be looking directly along the line of the nose. If you can't see any nose at all then you're effectively looking up into the sky and will have virtually zero visibility of the line ahead. Even at a small initial upward angle, this will only project higher and higher towards the sky the further out in front you are trying to look.

Another suprising thing in the Deltic cab was how compact it is and how close your head is to the windscreen when sat in the seat. A Deltic looks massive from the outside but the drivers position in the cab is very compact indeed.

The same thing applies to the similarly shaped class 37. I've confirmed on many an occasion that you can 100% see nose in the cab of a 37, although it must be said that the default RW viewpoint is far too high. I use the Trackir to lower the default view accordingly.

The issue with the Kuju Deltic is unfortunate as they took a shortcut it seems, with the he-who-shall-not-be named produced Deltic the nose is more barely visible. Really need to sit in DP1's cab to get the proper idea though as they can be differences between prototypes and full production models. Another cab pic from the NRM:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43057478@N05/6246495000/

DP1 is currently residing at Ribble Steam Railway:

http://www.ribblesteam.org.uk/blogs/new ... tic-at-rsr

You can see various photo's, including the cab and the engine. With TS2014 coming up I kind of wish they'd waited on DP1 and added a camera view to the engine room to show off the technology.

Thanks for the great post Jimmy

[Fodda]

I'm not going to argue a point, but the window surround is higher than the nose and will therefore block some view... Also Deltic nose slopes down slightly so all that direct projection stuff still works for my point.

As a normally sized 5'6" bloke I only just saw nose in the 37 and 40 with the seat comfortably set so my feet were comfy on the DSD. Taller people will see more, shorter will see less.

I'm only going by what I've experienced, and by what I saw the other day in TS's version of the DP1.

If you raise any driving seat to it's tallest height you'll bang your head on the ceiling and see loads of track. Basic geometry.

[growler37]

... just asking whether they've copied the old Deltic physics wholesale, or re-done them to be a little more believable.

I haven't bought the model but the promo materials mention "realistic power output". I would guess that something has been done about this

But perhaps someone who has actually bought this model could comment on how well they have achieved this realism

-Tim

I would, if i could see were i was going
(sorry all, i couldnt resist that)

[jimmyshand]

... just asking whether they've copied the old Deltic physics wholesale, or re-done them to be a little more believable.

I haven't bought the model but the promo materials mention "realistic power output". I would guess that something has been done about this

But perhaps someone who has actually bought this model could comment on how well they have achieved this realism

-Tim

I would, if i could see were i was going
(sorry all, i couldnt resist that)

Someone had to stick their nose in eh?

Fair point made above about driver height. At 6ft 2 I have a slight advantage when it comes to the question of driver position in the cab, unless there's a low roof of course!

One things for sure, the Deltic is a pretty poor design when it comes to driver visibility. However tall you are the view is very restricted compared to say a class 47? You can tell Deltics were one of the first designs to replace steam, back in a time when driver viz was not something really considered. I've always pondered how on earth mainline steam engine drivers did their job with almost no view ahead, especially at night at high speed. They must have been driving blind, can you imagine driving your car from the boot whilst peering through a toilet roll tube?!

[deltic009]

... just asking whether they've copied the old Deltic physics wholesale, or re-done them to be a little more believable.

I haven't bought the model but the promo materials mention "realistic power output". I would guess that something has been done about this

But perhaps someone who has actually bought this model could comment on how well they have achieved this realism

-Tim

I've purchased it (about two hours ago) and can confirm that the tractive effort stuff is totally different. Certainly don't nail it when you want to pull away a decent load as even around 10% throttle initially gets the amps above 2000!! Sounds awesome with the AP Pro sound pack

[SuperTux]

... just asking whether they've copied the old Deltic physics wholesale, or re-done them to be a little more believable.

I haven't bought the model but the promo materials mention "realistic power output". I would guess that something has been done about this

But perhaps someone who has actually bought this model could comment on how well they have achieved this realism

-Tim

I've purchased it (about two hours ago) and can confirm that the tractive effort stuff is totally different. Certainly don't nail it when you want to pull away a decent load as even around 10% throttle initially gets the amps above 2000!! Sounds awesome with the AP Pro sound pack

Are you getting proper in cab sounds on the DP1 with the AP Pro Pack applied? Seems really quiet on the inside, yet on the default Deltics it sounds much louder.

[deltic009]

I haven't bought the model but the promo materials mention "realistic power output". I would guess that something has been done about this

But perhaps someone who has actually bought this model could comment on how well they have achieved this realism

-Tim

I've purchased it (about two hours ago) and can confirm that the tractive effort stuff is totally different. Certainly don't nail it when you want to pull away a decent load as even around 10% throttle initially gets the amps above 2000!! Sounds awesome with the AP Pro sound pack

Are you getting proper in cab sounds on the DP1 with the AP Pro Pack applied? Seems really quiet on the inside, yet on the default Deltics it sounds much louder.

I can hear the in cab sounds but I actually haven't driven a series produced Deltic since getting the AP pack and the prototype - I just can't stop 'testing' the thing! Currently dragging some Pullmans along the Emsthwaite Branch!

[Klaabu]

Are you getting proper in cab sounds on the DP1 with the AP Pro Pack applied? Seems really quiet on the inside, yet on the default Deltics it sounds much louder.

AP Pro sounsets have to be handled different way. You have to turn main level much more up because those sounds have much wider dynamic range. My sound levels in RW options settings are as following: main level 90% and ambient sounds level 25%. Then it's done as suggested by AP because when You raise main volume level up ambient sounds will get louder accordingly. To avoid this just set ambient sound level to 25%. Armstrong Pro soundsets have all quite realistic distance fading effects which RSC rolling stock is always lacking.