RSC Deltic Prototype DP1

[Varney]

This thread is an embarrassment for lots of people. Slagging off RSC for deliberately not including the nose in cabview and then when it is shown to be there and people just hadn't bothered looking properly, instantly switch to a new complaint about the field divert that nobody has previously mentioned.

Classic shambolic RSC criticism as always, don't ever change folks

Yet another post from you criticising other members that dare say anything negative about your beloved RSC. Maybe it's time for you to find another forum, if this one irritates you so much.

[growler37]

Hi! i am sorry ,but i stand by my original review! its a poor representation of the original loco,i have seen it at the NRM many times,and was very lucky to have been allowed to visit the cab, many years ago,although i did not, sit in the drivers seat!
Yes i can fire up RWTOOLS and alter the seating postion,but after paying money for a product,i would have thought it would be possible to see out the windshield without having to resort to hacking the files,i challenge anybody to compare the quality of this offering and the AP Waggonz Class 90, there is no comparison in quality and value for money.
On the question of RSC bashing, i owe them no more than i owe, Tesco, or Morrisons, or Andrex,or any of the hundreds of companys i buy products from every day, i have no axe to grind! they are judged on the products they produce,they offer for sale,i care not who works for them, what they do,how hard they work,what they eat at lunchtimes or were they go on the weekends like everything we puchase in life,its almost always quality and value for money,that is the most important,game content Dlc should be no different.
Kind Regards
Kev

[SouthernElectric]

This thread is an embarrassment for lots of people. Slagging off RSC for deliberately not including the nose in cabview and then when it is shown to be there and people just hadn't bothered looking properly, instantly switch to a new complaint about the field divert that nobody has previously mentioned.

Classic shambolic RSC criticism as always, don't ever change folks

Bit strong ain't it?
I took the previous comments as well rounded criticism of a product whether it be from RSC or elsewhere, as has been mentioned I too can use RW Tools but I've never attempted to move a camera view in a cab, saying that I too will add this to my "get in a Sale" list.
Simon

[Aclet]

I got this pack today and I am really pleased with it.
A little to clean maybe, but it is how I remember it, certainly a very striking looking machine.

I am sure there will be a Christmas sale and I could have got it cheaper, but I felt the need to put it in the Doncaster shed this morning.
Be nice to have a few more Steam locomotives but we may need a 3rd party company to produce them.
A

[jimmyshand]

Hi! i am sorry ,but i stand by my original review! its a poor representation of the original loco,i have seen it at the NRM many times,and was very lucky to have been allowed to visit the cab, many years ago,although i did not, sit in the drivers seat!
Yes i can fire up RWTOOLS and alter the seating postion,but after paying money for a product,i would have thought it would be possible to see out the windshield without having to resort to hacking the files,i challenge anybody to compare the quality of this offering and the AP Waggonz Class 90, there is no comparison in quality and value for money.
On the question of RSC bashing, i owe them no more than i owe, Tesco, or Morrisons, or Andrex,or any of the hundreds of companys i buy products from every day, i have no axe to grind! they are judged on the products they produce,they offer for sale,i care not who works for them, what they do,how hard they work,what they eat at lunchtimes or were they go on the weekends like everything we puchase in life,its almost always quality and value for money,that is the most important,game content Dlc should be no different.
Kind Regards
Kev

Fantastic post Kev, I think you've summed up the sentiments of many of us very well there. It's not about RSC bashing, it's about comparing value for money and quality. The reason RSC come in for regular criticism is that many of their recent products have fallen way below the expected level of quality/value. Standards in the sim have risen and all products will be judged by whatever new benchmarks have been set. For example, all loco DLC from here on will now be compared to the Class 90 because it has set a new standard. The same thing happens in all other walks of life as all related products are compared to the best in class.

[deltic009]

To defend my own position of people's criticism always taking a sharper edge than other developers there was the way people received the GEML pack and Class 360. Multiple complaints about a lack of stock, how accuracy will be marred etc etc. None of this was levelled at Keith's superb WCML-N route which came with an incorrect era Class 86 with unprototypical DVT-less mk3 formations as the only additional traction included.

For example, all loco DLC from here on will now be compared to the Class 90 because it has set a new standard. The same thing happens in all other walks of life as all related products are compared to the best in class.

I disagree with this point as RSC are not releasing one traction pack in a year, there has been so much more time and effort spent on the 90 and it shows positively, but if RSC took things to that degree we would have had 3 routes and 5 trains since Railworks days - no thanks. It is good it leaves a space in the market for authenticity to the nth degree for companies like Waggonz and AP, because RSC concentrate more on getting stuff out there - just look at how many extra WCML-N trains we have for example.

[styckx]

What's funny is.. All the complaining about the nose and my fix has only been downloaded 13 times.

So really. How big of a deal was it?

[RichyV]

What's funny is.. All the complaining about the nose and my fix has only been downloaded 13 times.

So really. How big of a deal was it?

And that's the point, I think - none of it is "that bad...".

It is a trifle mediocre as a model, but instead of just not buying it, we are continually bombarded by 'reviews' from people who don't even own or have tried it - it wears very thin!

Unfortunately, it is very easy to hide behind a computer keyboard and continually slag things off - we lost one developer from these forums for the same reason before. And yet it still continues...

I hear, oh so often, about the 'youngsters who clog up Facebook with their relentless whining and nonsensical questions', yet when I visit here I'm engulfed by the same rubbish being spouted.

It has been said, I do not know how many times, before but why post when you have nothing useful to add..?

[styckx]

What's funny is.. All the complaining about the nose and my fix has only been downloaded 13 times.

So really. How big of a deal was it?

And that's the point, I think - none of it is "that bad...".

It is a trifle mediocre as a model, but instead of just not buying it, we are continually bombarded by 'reviews' from people who don't even own or have tried it - it wears very thin!

Unfortunately, it is very easy to hide behind a computer keyboard and continually slag things off - we lost one developer from these forums for the same reason before. And yet it still continues...

I hear, oh so often, about the 'youngsters who clog up Facebook with their relentless whining and nonsensical questions', yet when I visit here I'm engulfed by the same rubbish being spouted.

It has been said, I do not know how many times, before but why post when you have nothing useful to add..?

Well. I usually don't defend RSC vehicles too much as their latest efforts (360, 146, 465) have been meh at best... But the Deltic was already a drab old model and they improved on it.. No one expected a new cab and they got it.. The whole issue with the nose is mind boggling to me..

They improved a "meh" model that has super limited running options so.. It is what it is.. It's a show piece at best that anyone who bought it will have forgot about it next week. (even those who like it probably).. Impulse buy... Limited budget.. Maximum profit.

[jimmyshand]

To defend my own position of people's criticism always taking a sharper edge than other developers there was the way people received the GEML pack and Class 360. Multiple complaints about a lack of stock, how accuracy will be marred etc etc. None of this was levelled at Keith's superb WCML-N route which came with an incorrect era Class 86 with unprototypical DVT-less mk3 formations as the only additional traction included.

I disagree with this point as RSC are not releasing one traction pack in a year, there has been so much more time and effort spent on the 90 and it shows positively, but if RSC took things to that degree we would have had 3 routes and 5 trains since Railworks days - no thanks. It is good it leaves a space in the market for authenticity to the nth degree for companies like Waggonz and AP, because RSC concentrate more on getting stuff out there - just look at how many extra WCML-N trains we have for example.

I would have to also disagree with you too. Although the class 90 was long in development it was done by 2 blokes working on their own trying to make something for someone else's product. RSC are the powerhouse with far more technical resource, far more intimate knowledge of the program (it's their baby) and far more staff. There is no excuse for RSC producing anything other than top of the class products. If a one man band can do it then the might of RSC should be walking it.

Concerning WCMLN, this route when it was released was revolutionary. We'd never seen anything like it before, it was a game changer. The 86 was also a highly sought after locomotive. Nowadays we are used to blockbuster routes and our standards and demands are higher. The class 360 is not a national railway icon like the class 86. In fact it's probably the dullest train I've ever seen!

[jimmyshand]

What's funny is.. All the complaining about the nose and my fix has only been downloaded 13 times.

So really. How big of a deal was it?

And that's the point, I think - none of it is "that bad...".

It is a trifle mediocre as a model, but instead of just not buying it, we are continually bombarded by 'reviews' from people who don't even own or have tried it - it wears very thin!

Unfortunately, it is very easy to hide behind a computer keyboard and continually slag things off - we lost one developer from these forums for the same reason before. And yet it still continues...

I hear, oh so often, about the 'youngsters who clog up Facebook with their relentless whining and nonsensical questions', yet when I visit here I'm engulfed by the same rubbish being spouted.

It has been said, I do not know how many times, before but why post when you have nothing useful to add..?

There is actually much to be gained from critical posts and reviews. They let developers and other customers know the truth about what people think of the standard of the product. What standard of dlc do you think we'd be getting if we all just rejoiced in unquestioning praise at each release? When something is not good enough then you need people to say so otherwise things won't improve next time.

Being a basher of RSC bashers does not make you one of the good guys. Think about that one!

[ashgray]

Oh dear.

Some of the posts in this thread are precisely the reason why I rarely bother to post here any more.

As Pete says (second post down): http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=133663

Ash

[Merlin75]

What a shame UKTS has come to this member against member. RSC charge money for the items they make and part and parcel of that is people are then free to comment about what they make. People have a right to say what they don't like about RSC and what it makes just as much as others can say what's good about them and what they make and it's up to RSC if they want to listen or not. But members of UKTS turning on each other solves nothing RSC are not going to thank those who leap to their defence on here or beg UKTS not to give you a little holiday. I hope UKTS can become the place it once was where people were only interested in the game rather than these silly little for and against RSC fights.

[RichyV]

Being a basher of RSC bashers does not make you one of the good guys. Think about that one!

Like I said, FAR too easy to sit behind a keyboard... ...and yet it STILL continues. Unbelievable.

[SuperTux]

To defend my own position of people's criticism always taking a sharper edge than other developers there was the way people received the GEML pack and Class 360. Multiple complaints about a lack of stock, how accuracy will be marred etc etc. None of this was levelled at Keith's superb WCML-N route which came with an incorrect era Class 86 with unprototypical DVT-less mk3 formations as the only additional traction included.

I disagree with this point as RSC are not releasing one traction pack in a year, there has been so much more time and effort spent on the 90 and it shows positively, but if RSC took things to that degree we would have had 3 routes and 5 trains since Railworks days - no thanks. It is good it leaves a space in the market for authenticity to the nth degree for companies like Waggonz and AP, because RSC concentrate more on getting stuff out there - just look at how many extra WCML-N trains we have for example.

I would have to also disagree with you too. Although the class 90 was long in development it was done by 2 blokes working on their own trying to make something for someone else's product. RSC are the powerhouse with far more technical resource, far more intimate knowledge of the program (it's their baby) and far more staff. There is no excuse for RSC producing anything other than top of the class products. If a one man band can do it then the might of RSC should be walking it.

Concerning WCMLN, this route when it was released was revolutionary. We'd never seen anything like it before, it was a game changer. The 86 was also a highly sought after locomotive. Nowadays we are used to blockbuster routes and our standards and demands are higher. The class 360 is not a national railway icon like the class 86. In fact it's probably the dullest train I've ever seen!

How many people at RSC work on the models? Do you actually know? You don't get a programmer to work on 3D models as most won't have a clue, and also vice versa, plus with more people this means more expenses and therefore the gain attained isn't necessarily as much as you allude to, not to mention you're not focussed on just making engines.

Interestingly enough these job advertisements give a bit of a picture of what's expected (if the job descriptions are accurate):

http://www.railsimulator.com/learning.php

They have a couple of openings if anyone is interested .

To compare, the planes which Microsoft shipped with FSX or any of the flightsim series were never that great, indeed a comparison can be made with AP/Waggonz vs RSC, AP/Waggonz is equivalent to A2A, whilst RSC remind me of Microsoft. RSC seem to aim to a more generic market, if you ever look at the Steam forums you still see people asking for help with driving the class 86.