Lack of interesting American Routes.

[sargnickfury]

I am really looking to find more interesting American routes. I can't be the only one who feels that the majority of released U.S. routes do not really exemplify American Railroads. It's as if someone thought long and hard at what routes would have the least amount of scenery for ease of creation. Or just did a quick google maps conversion without bothering to model local scenery. While some routes have some excellent resources in general every one I have tried has been absolutely boring. By contrast many of the European routes are quite interesting with lots of details, more diversity of scenery. Many of the free routes especially like Brescia Iseo show great detail, and especially more true to life feel on foliage etc. To be honest that route especially feels more like many of the rails here in the United States.....even the Horseshoe curve while it has some grades etc is a 4 lane wide open looking route that reminds me nothing of Appalachia as it really is, I have not ridden that section in the real world, so I do not know if that is actually how it is, or just a lack of detail in the product. Many areas just show an incredible lack of diversity in vegetation....it just makes it not seem like those areas at all.

Instead of the open flat topography can we please get some interesting sections? After a 45 min run on many these routes I find myself asking why I did that to myself....I want my 45 min back.... If these free routes can have that level of detail I don't understand why commercial routes can't, and I don't understand why there's such a vast difference between American and European routes in detail.....

This is the kind routes I'd like to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fUF4QIjMTw

[august1929]

I am really looking to find more interesting American routes.

Have you had a look over at Railworks America? http://railworksamerica.com/ There are a range of routes that have been and are being developed, some released, some to be released shortly - both freeware and payware.

There are route (payware) by Rich garber (3 based on real railroads, two fictional) http://allaboardrails.com/ftk.htm (get them quick as he has withdrawn from trainsims and his routes will be disappearing from his site soon) - routes by GreatNortherner (Michael Stephan) - a C&O route by Toripony (http://www.coarw.com/ and search on RW America), a couple of CSX routes and a PLE route built by Tdwolf (look at the forums at Trainsim.com) http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread ... -Baltimore - a Soo line route plus BNSF Seattle Sub http://eyein12.blogspot.co.uk/

What about Marias Pass - have a look at some of the photos of the route on railpictures.net - it isn't that different. Detail is pretty good.



Portland Terminal is a very detailed and accurate rendition of a shortline in Maine.





The route may be flat, but it is bang full of detail.

Then there is http://www.gtraxsims.com/



Not flat and containing plenty of detail (from the same stable as Portland Terminal)

...and have a look at this up and coming... http://vnhrr.blogspot.co.uk/

I am confused by your objection to Horseshoe Curve - the tracks are as they were! It was a major coal moving route with four tracks throughout the area modeled, and again, if you have a look at some period photos, apart from clutter, it isn't that far off - I reckon RSC did a pretty good job of it.

It's as if someone thought long and hard at what routes would have the least amount of scenery for ease of creation. Or just did a quick google maps conversion without bothering to model local scenery.

That seems a bit unfair and severe, particularly if you look at the scenery on Marias, and even Donner Pass - the thing to remember about the freeware versus payware position is that those producing payware have to be reasonably certain their routes will run on a large number of systems. Freeware, like Brescia, has a different agenda - as much time as is available can be spent on the freeware, and there are not the ultimate concerns about ensuring reasonable sales through being universally (or nearly universally) useable by most systems.

One thing you could do is clone a route like Horsehoe and add your own detailing. Always a load of fun

The other thing to remember, that Railworks is fairly UK/Euro Centro - Many of my US railsim buddies have held on very steadily to MSTS - first off, MSTS (being Microsoft, though developed by Kuju - same a Rail Simulator, later RailWorks) is seen as a US product and RW is not. Second, a lot of the experienced US MSTS developers have stayed with MSTS (Rich Garber didn't and Marc from 3DTrains is producing assets and possibly a route or two for RW) and there is just not the same interest or commitment to a sim that is not viewed as a particularly good Simulator (it is seen by many as a good scenery and asset simulator, but not the physics side - early physics problems have generated a long term antipathy to RS/RW).

Maybe it is time to get building?

Good looking

Rod

[sargnickfury]

I will give you the Durango and Silverton that is a good line. I have had it awhile and like it, but it doesn't really have that much more in the way of detail either but more then makes up for it in the interesting terrain. I think maybe I should say that in most of the American maps there seems to be very little in the way of variety of vegetation, resource buildings etc. I know that some of this may be due to as you said making it run on more broad number of systems, but perhaps that has been taken to an extreme. Having a field of widely spaced identical trees may even work on an alpine route, but it makes an Appalachian deciduous forest area seem like a giant apple orchid. It's better almost to block distance views with closer growing but varied vegetation along the tracks (which does not eat up that much power) there are ways to do it. The Horse Shoe curve may be very accurate as far as the track itself, and some period buildings and cars (though it looks like everyone basically agreed on the same car)....but if one has ever been through the eastern United States it's just not remotely like that.....I see much more variation the European routes, and often more foliage even on the payware content...I just wonder if it is because many of the developers have not spent much time here....I don't know. I will check out those other American routes you suggested they really do look promising.

I will say this of all the routes I have found the one that has the MOST detail, from graphics sounds etc.....is the Simtrain.ch SBB Route 1. It's a bit pricey like everything made by the Swiss, and it's not a very long route, but what i find interesting is even though it has some of the most detail both in graphics, texture quality, and sound, it runs much faster then many routes that are rather bland.....so I just wonder if it's about streamlining the maps, because more detail is possible without a reduction in speed.

[august1929]

I understand more of what you mean - in respect of the foliage and variety, try Portland Terminal. What has happened in recent routes is that RSC appear to have gone over more to their 3D trees, which, to my mind, all look pretty similar. They are mainly used close to the track, and they cast, generally, good shadows, but I feel they all have a slightly toy-town appearance to them and are pretty generic.

The original single plane rotating shape trees had more variation in shape and, from anything less than 45 degrees were, to my mind, much more realistic (except for shadows) and had greater variation.

Portland foliage has been done very well - there is a good variety of shape and colour, plus copious ground vegetation which is where the difference comes in.

Marc Nelson, at 3DTrains has created his own range of foliage for US routes over here http://www.3dtrains.com/products/rs1/ru ... pes1.shtml

I don't know if you use the editor, but is is easy to add details of your own, and maybe alter some of the "sameness" that you have noticed.

Re Horseshoe Curve, I certainly don't disagree about the foliage there. I think, track and building wise it is superbly done, but it does need some variation and a colour lift as well - the entire route, to my mind, is fairly monochromatic - a bit like looking at a route that is slightly sepia tinted. As a result, although I should like it a lot, I don't use it that much. I will need to have a closer look at what could be modified with the colours to add more variation, before adding any more detail (it is a long route!). Michael Stephan & other dev's New Haven route should be good in the way you are meaning.

Again, commercial routes will be done to a cost, both in terms of time spent and processor speed.

Rod