TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

General discussion about Train Simulator, your thoughts, questions, news and views!

Moderator: Moderators

styckx
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 3989
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by styckx »

shanyiqua wrote:
styckx wrote:AMD cards are without a doubt the absolute worst thing in the world to use if you want good performance with this game..
That's an urban legend. But such urban legends keeping nvidia alive (as they make far worse gpus than amd in performance per price ratio).

No the problem is lies elsewhere. That hd5450 isn't a fast card(it meant for HTPC hw accelerated video playback, and browsing, not for gaming), but it still should be faster than a intel gpu (everything is faster than those).
Nope, no urban legend.. I saw it.. I went from a AMD 6990 to a GTX 680 Twin Frozr... The difference was stupidly bad.. AMD cards + TS2012 + SSAA = A joke. Someone who used to post here came up with the same results on a 7970. AMD + TS12 + SSAA = Laughable..

I've since purchased another GTX 680 Twin Frozr to put them in SLI.. I couldn't be happier.. My 6990 is on Ebay right now and will fetch me $500..
gptech
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 19585
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by gptech »

tubemad wrote:Along with a new tower, he (at computer shop) said something about power supplies too needing the right case that's got the right power supply....wooosh!
If you have a narrow case then the PSU will have mounting/fixing holes to suit that case, accordingly it won't physically be possible to line the screw holes up with the holes in a wider case. Of more importance though is the power of the PSU; many slim PCs have low power units fitted as they're primarily designed (but not sold as) machines for multi-media watching and basic computing---not gaming! It's often stated that a 500W unit should be what you start off looking at, and I subscribe to the view that a single 12v rail PSU kicking out 40A on that rail is the minimum. nVidia recommend at least a 300W unit for the 630 card, providing 20A. The 630 cards can come with either DDR3 or DDR5 RAM fitted---DDR5 is much better, so if at all possible stay away from a DDR3 equipped one. As others have said, you'd really be better off looking at something like a 550Ti, or moving up to the *50 numbered versions of the 6 series.

Whilst I can forgive any shop for not knowing about a niche game such as this, I'm surprised they suggested such a low powered card as the 5450 being suitable for gaming---it's of a class of GPU the iGPU of Sandybridge, never mind Ivy, was touted as making obsolete (as you've found with the results you observed)
deltic009
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 4017
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:06 am

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by deltic009 »

lemberg wrote:My AMD 7850 runs railworks no problem, all settings on high, runs wlos easily.


Keith
I should hope so, it's a £150 card - I can run with everything on in full.HD (downsampling from larger) with a £90 nVidia. The 7xxx cards dislike Direct X9, so don't do as well as they do in DX10 or 11.
Matthew Wilson, development team at Vulcan Productions

http://www.vulcanproductions.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/VulcanFoundry/
User avatar
ttjph
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1454
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:54 am
Location: Warwickshire

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by ttjph »

tubemad wrote:I dunno, I got the GT 630 for about £80, just about what can put up with spending, and tried it on here, runs a lot of routes clear as day, boosts MSTS Frames up no end too. Don't know if it would overclock his machine though.

So basically an x50 should give it a very good balance? I'm looking at spending £80 on changing towers, £40-ih for a new one and £30 for them to move the kit over, as I've not done that before.
Changing the graphics card isn't going to overclock anything - that's something you choose to do yourself, through the BIOS (basic computer settings accessed when you first switch on).

By 'balanced', I mean that you're aiming to make full use of both CPU and GPU. If one is significantly slower than the other, that will be the limiting factor for how many frames per second (fps) you get in a sim; and the more powerful one will just spend half its time twiddling its thumbs waiting for the slower one to finish processing each frame.

The specs you posted list a pretty decent CPU, so in my judgement (for what that's worth!) an x50 is probably the minimum spec you want. If you can stretch a bit further, say to a 560 or 560 Ti, that will probably be better.

To give some idea, my system seems fairly balanced with a processor benchmark (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html) of around 1200 (slight overclock) and a video benchmark (see earlier) around 1100. It also has a memory bandwidth (just google "GTX 260 specs", or the appropriate model number for the card you're looking at) of 112 GB/sec, which ultimately determines the framerate x resolution (see http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=118819):
Here is a rough calculation to see how much Bandwidth you need to see here, in order to turn on the new shadows in TSX:

Code: Select all

Bandwidth (GB/s) = (Screen Width * Screen Height (in pixels) * 25) / 1,000,000
(Also, if you hope to run 'proper' antialiasing, multiply it by another 4 for 2x2 SSAA - assuming I've understood the whole thing correctly!)

Now, your i5-2320 scores nearly 1700, versus my 1200, so you'll ideally want a graphics card with a proportionally higher benchmark score, say 2000 or so.

This isn't necessarily exact, but if you check the benchmark score and memory bandwidth before buying, hopefully you'll stand a better chance of ending up with a system that runs as well as it can.

Any specific input on this subject from the resident computer experts would be welcome, too (gptech?) :wink:
i5-4690k | 16 GB | GTX970 | Win 10 64bit | h/k SoundSticks | 1680x1050
User avatar
tubemad
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 2368
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by tubemad »

I can't see what power output his PC has, but basically it's better off in its current case if it won't fit a wide case? Am I better hunting down a low profile nVidea card basically? This card is the only one the shop has but I'd be better off hunting online by the sounds of it.

I'm all for support your own local computer shop, but I won't if they are just going to fob me off. The card apparently would be fine for gaming, and apparently a new wide case would be better and would be easy to swap around...?
There is another local shop but that is trash, once sold me a card that was supposed to be top of the range (and was nowhere near in the end) and has done a couple of bodge job fixes..never again


Thanks for the help and guidance so far :D
shanyiqua
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:48 am

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by shanyiqua »

styckx wrote:Nope, no urban legend.. I saw it.. I went from a AMD 6990 to a GTX 680 Twin Frozr... The difference was stupidly bad.. AMD cards + TS2012 + SSAA = A joke. Someone who used to post here came up with the same results on a 7970. AMD + TS12 + SSAA = Laughable..

I've since purchased another GTX 680 Twin Frozr to put them in SLI.. I couldn't be happier.. My 6990 is on Ebay right now and will fetch me $500..
What means that "joke"? By the way i saw the opposite, so it's probably a user error :)
User avatar
sundog
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:12 pm
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by sundog »

Sorry to jump in here, but just before I commit myself - would I be right in assuming an AMD Radeon HD7870 2GB 16 x PCIe 3.0 would be ok for handling TS2013?

Thanks
Ken
Mostly Harmless
User avatar
kirkheath
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 4678
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Stoke-On-Trent

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by kirkheath »

It would be ok but you will be stuck around the MXAA graphic settings.

I myself spent quite abit of money on my machine hardware wise. And though more mainstream titles such as BF3 and CoD and Sniper 2 etc run flawlessly on max details on my current AMD HD7950 even overclocked to speeds of higher spec cards, TS would still struggle and micro stutter although was a lot less was still very noticeable. AMD cards just can not seem to be able to cope with the way the vegetation or particles have been scripted in this game. Nvidia are far superior, my GTX480 which is a gen or 2 older runs TS alot smoother. I have a Sandybridge i5 running at 4.4GHz and a SSD

I really recommend an Nvidia card GTX 670 if your budget can stretch that's what I'll be doing.
Member of DMLL. Owners of 7820,3850, 3845 and 2874
User avatar
sundog
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:12 pm
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by sundog »

Hi Kirkheath - and thank you for the reply.

I've also had similar advice from someone else regarding TS, and I'm thinking of the GTX 660 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0, or GTX 650 Ti 2GB Boost Edition 16X PCIe 3.0 - that's about as much as I can stretch to :) . Do you think these would give a good performance?

Thanks
Ken
Mostly Harmless
User avatar
ttjph
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1454
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:54 am
Location: Warwickshire

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by ttjph »

The Passmark scores look good - 3546 for the 650 Ti Boost, and 4102 for the 660; and both do 144 GB/s. On that basis, either should work very well - personally I'd go for whichever you can get a good deal on!
i5-4690k | 16 GB | GTX970 | Win 10 64bit | h/k SoundSticks | 1680x1050
User avatar
sundog
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:12 pm
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by sundog »

Ok thanks guys I've gone for the 660 in the end. Looking forward to seeing the results! :D

Ken
Mostly Harmless
gptech
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 19585
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by gptech »

tubemad wrote:I can't see what power output his PC has, but basically it's better off in its current case if it won't fit a wide case? Am I better hunting down a low profile nVidea card basically? This card is the only one the shop has but I'd be better off hunting online by the sounds of it.
Often the sticker showing the ratings is on the *wrong* side of the PSU, so you may have to take out the 4 retaining screws and ease it out of the case to turn it and read what's what. If it's a low power unit, and given that the PC was designed and built to use the iGPU of the CPU for 'main-stream' use, it may well be that the output of the PSU isn't really up to the job of running a *decent* graphics card. Before you go any further I'd say it's essential to find out just what rating the existing PSU is.
You might have bother sourcing a low profile card that's suitable, so swapping the case could be the best option, it wouldn't be a huge job, just take care to note how the various wires etc are connected--particularly those from the case buttons but they should be of a standard colour coding which makes life easier.

ttjph has given a pretty good assessment of what you should be looking for, as a generalisation Kromaatickse postulated that to be able to run with shodows on at any real quality you need a bandwidth of 50 Gb/s, and despite improvements since then in how the game handles graphics I see no reason to question that. http://pclinks.xtreemhost.com/video.htm is useful for comparing cards, particularly that bandwidth figure.
styckx
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 3989
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by styckx »

kirkheath wrote:It would be ok but you will be stuck around the MXAA graphic settings.

I myself spent quite abit of money on my machine hardware wise. And though more mainstream titles such as BF3 and CoD and Sniper 2 etc run flawlessly on max details on my current AMD HD7950 even overclocked to speeds of higher spec cards, TS would still struggle and micro stutter although was a lot less was still very noticeable. AMD cards just can not seem to be able to cope with the way the vegetation or particles have been scripted in this game. Nvidia are far superior, my GTX480 which is a gen or 2 older runs TS alot smoother. I have a Sandybridge i5 running at 4.4GHz and a SSD

I really recommend an Nvidia card GTX 670 if your budget can stretch that's what I'll be doing.
Thank you for confirming what I was saying.. AMD cards are terrible for this game..
User avatar
kirkheath
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 4678
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Stoke-On-Trent

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by kirkheath »

Just to confirm this further, I switched back to the green side. Got myself a GTx680, TS will now happily run on highest detail settings with AA at 2x2 SSAA and x8 AF. Finally!!! Although the new drivers have broke BF3 hahaha
Member of DMLL. Owners of 7820,3850, 3845 and 2874
User avatar
sargnickfury
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:05 am
Location: Pardon me boy.....

Re: TS2013 ATI Radeon card performance

Post by sargnickfury »

shanyiqua wrote:
styckx wrote:AMD cards are without a doubt the absolute worst thing in the world to use if you want good performance with this game..
That's an urban legend. But such urban legends keeping nvidia alive (as they make far worse gpus than amd in performance per price ratio).
I couldn't disagree more about AMD and nvidia. I am a long time ATI AMD fan....for the exact reason you mention price per performance, but they have all but lost me because of micro stuttering issues. I had the HD7850 a fairly decent card and sure on benchmarks it pushed respectable numbers....but the play experience was full of stuttering. This is a known issue with most of the current series of AMD cards...it's no myth and there are plenty articles on it. I finally replaced it with a GTX 670, which granted is also a faster card...but even if I push it with my massively modded Skyrim game it does not stutter like HD7850 did.....

I would love to be a AMD fan again, but right now in the current generation of cards it has been my personal experience image quality is just much better on Nvidia. Please look up micro stuttering and AMD 7000 series.

TS2013 really doesn't push this card I keep it stable at 40fps (limited to that by command line)

But I pushed my GTX 670 pretty close to limit with my Skyrim mods and it's buttery smooth, below is a video I made with new card...being very much pushed to it's limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f-sFKROb70
Locked

Return to “[TS] General Discussion”