Atomic Systems

Dear all,

My brother and I are currently (and finally!) in the process of assembling a computer for general gaming, particularly simulations such as Train Simulator and MS Flight Simulator X.

Here is a list of the hardware we can afford for the time being. Can you kindly give me your views on what you think about the below? Does the below hardware cater for good performance on TS2013 with TSX mode on and relatively medium - high settings on complex routes such as WCML, London - Brighton, London-Faversham, WLoS

Hard Drive - 1T Western Digital sata 3
RAM - x2 4GB Corsair ddr3
Power Supply - 700w Alpine quite fan atx
CPU - intel i5 3350p ivy bridge 31 ghz
Mother Board - asrock H55M-LE DDR3 VGA uATX
GPU - 2GB ASUS GT640G DDR3 PCIE3.0

Maybe I would be able to finally run the sim for the first time since November!

Many thanks in advance!

I too build pc's, quiet a few for gaming. The general spec is ok, more RAM would be very good, but the HD will let you down, my tests have shown its always better to have lots of smaller drives than one big one but what is really best is to have solid state drives, this will make a big difference especially with RW.
My own pc only has the two simulators you refer to.
Windows 7 64bit, which I hope your going to use, takes up under 26Gb and if you put your simulators on a second drive as I have done they take up, FSX 28Gb, and RW 28Gb. (depending on the number or routes, for RW) and type of scenery for FSX) so at best two 100 or 200Gb drives is all you need for a while.
If you cant afford SSD then get smaller WD Raptor 10000RPM drives which also help RW a lot. That motherboard supports 4 SATA3 Drives.
There are many advantages of having lots of smaller drives but do remember your pc will only run as fast as your slowest drive so if your primary master is a conventional HD and your primary slave is a SSD the pc will only run as fast as the convential HD you would need to put the second HD on a different bus and put the DVD/ROM drive as the primary slave. These days SSD is a must in my view with an EXTERNAL 1TB if you want backup.
Finally remember there are BIG differences with the Speeds of SSD check here first.
http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/ There are other sites but I still find this one the most consistant.
Good luck

John, there is no master/slave relationship with SATA connections.

Sorry, your right of course, I was in Raid mode ! its too early in the morning..

GPU - 2GB ASUS GT640G DDR3 PCIE3.0

Try not to skimp on the graphics card,DDR3 is old and slow (on a GPU),Ive had my GTX560superclocked for a while now and it came with DDR5 almost over a year ago now.

Daz

Thanks for the info, guys

tads1970, thanks mate. Can you suggest a better (but only slightly more expensive) graphics card that would go with the same motherboard?

MSI R6770 - 1GB GDDR5
MSI R7750 - 1GB GDDR5
Gainward GeForce GTX 650 - 1GB GDDR5

any one of these by any chance?

You'd be better off looking at a motherboard based on the H77 or Z77 chipsets rather than the (relatively) old H55, if they're too expensive come down the scale as far as the H61 but I wouldn't drop lower.
The PSU has beefy enough numbers but make sure it kicks out enough amps on the 12v supply, preferably 40+ and if it's on a single rail the better.
Tads is spot on, the difference between DDR3 and DDR5 for GPU performance is staggering so go for DDR5 over a huge amount of vRAM, which only really comes into it's own if you're running at huge resolutions or on multiple monitors.
Definately aim high, even if that means running on the integrated GPU in the CPU for a while and purchasing a *proper* graphics card once you've begged/borrowed/stolen the money. The iGPU on Ivy is actually pretty good, and consider a x40 based card as the minimum, regardless of what the first digit may be.
HDD size is grand, though I'd agree with John that having the OS on a separate drive to programs brings a fair performance boost---lots of small drives however is only beneficial to performance if you have them in a striped RAID array. Stretch the budget to allow for a second, smaller drive exclusively for the OS, if needs be drop down to 500GB for the storage drive as it'll take you a while to fill that.
Don't be impressed by a conventional drive advertising a SATA III interface as a performance feature, they all have this interface as it saves manufacturers stocking more than one type. There are very few spinnning drives that will max out SATA II never mind getting towards 6Mb/s, and that sort of speed is only the province of SSDs; jury's still out on those and whilst they offer fast access times and thus reduced loading waits they don't seem to improve performance much, certainly in the case of TS2013.
Make sure you pick RAM of the right speed, determined by the memory controller on the CPU (1333 or 1600 in this case). Pushing beyond those speeds gives no real benefit. The more the merrier, but 8GB is a sensible amount---my thinking is that once we need 16GB of RAM to make the programs work we'll be looking at upgrading more than just the RAM anyway. Don't save a few pennies by buying 2 single sticks, go for a certified matched pair to guarantee dual channel operation and once again don't be impressed by flashy heatsinks etc, these are practically useless and would only be of use if you were severely pushing the performance by overclocking way too high. The value ranges of the reputable manufactures give good performance at good prices, there's no need to have all the 'bells and whistles' if you aren't going to use them.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your budget and how much did this shopping list come to?

This is fantastic feedback, many thanks, gptech!!

When you say huge amounts of vRam, how much do you consider this to be? 1GB is enough? I'm looking at the 2GB and that is well out of my price range.

Sorry didn't see the end of your message

Budget is around 600euro, the hardware I listed above comes to around 570euro

Ok, so I've made some adjustments to the specs

How about this, guys?

Hard Drive - 2x 500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5" 7200rpm SATA3 Hard Drive
RAM - x2 4GB Corsair ddr3
Power Supply - 700w Alpine quite fan atx
CPU - intel i5 3350p ivy bridge 31 ghz
Mother Board - Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H Z77 S1155/DDR3/RAID/ATx Motherboard
GPU - MSI R7750 - 1GB GDDR5

This already exceeds my 600eu budget by around 60eu.

So my questions are the following.

1.) Are these appropriate specifications for good (great?) performance
2.) Is the motherboard appropriate for the GPU, CPU, et al?
3.) Does the GPU have enough memory?
4.) As it is better to have a separate hard drive for the OS, I decided to get two 500GB HDs instead of 1TB. How good spec is this?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm no where near being computer literate

msey0002 wrote:Ok, so I've made some adjustments to the specs

How about this, guys?

Hard Drive - 2x 500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5" 7200rpm SATA3 Hard Drive
RAM - x2 4GB Corsair ddr3
Power Supply - 700w Alpine quite fan atx
CPU - intel i5 3350p ivy bridge 31 ghz
Mother Board - Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H Z77 S1155/DDR3/RAID/ATx Motherboard
GPU - MSI R7750 - 1GB GDDR5

This already exceeds my 600eu budget by around 60eu.

So my questions are the following.

1.) Are these appropriate specifications for good (great?) performance
2.) Is the motherboard appropriate for the GPU, CPU, et al?
3.) Does the GPU have enough memory?
4.) As it is better to have a separate hard drive for the OS, I decided to get two 500GB HDs instead of 1TB. How good spec is this?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm no where near being computer literate

One thing I've noticed is how cheap the PSU you're buying is, I'd recommend getting a better one from a brand like OCZ or Corsair as you know you're getting something that'll last.

msey0002 wrote:Ok, so I've made some adjustments to the specs

How about this, guys?

Hard Drive - 2x 500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5" 7200rpm SATA3 Hard Drive
RAM - x2 4GB Corsair ddr3
Power Supply - 700w Alpine quite fan atx
CPU - intel i5 3350p ivy bridge 31 ghz
Mother Board - Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H Z77 S1155/DDR3/RAID/ATx Motherboard
GPU - MSI R7750 - 1GB GDDR5

This already exceeds my 600eu budget by around 60eu.

So my questions are the following.

1.) Are these appropriate specifications for good (great?) performance
2.) Is the motherboard appropriate for the GPU, CPU, et al?
3.) Does the GPU have enough memory?
4.) As it is better to have a separate hard drive for the OS, I decided to get two 500GB HDs instead of 1TB. How good spec is this?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm no where near being computer literate

That's live

I would consider a SSD. Samsung (256 Gb) is good. Good in performance and good in price.
The SSD only for program's and the OS (64bit), NO data.
One HD (internal) for data and one external HD for a total backup to be sure.
OK,
I use Acronis for a system backup > all the content of that SSD in one image. I save that image internal and external, you never know he:)
And I recommand SyncToy to sync. data form the internal HD with the external.

Tip.
IF you use Outlook for e-mail etc. Place the pst-file on your data HD (the internal HD).
Never on the C-drive. If you have a crash of the OS > "it's a gonner" he, all lost.

And backup your Steam-folder intern AND extern.

imho: your cpu is a bit "weak"
(not strong enough)
The cpu is still the heart of the PC he.

GPU: I prefere a Nvidia chip.

An i5 weak?

As he's at the top end, beyond even, suggesting buying SSDs is a wee bit silly. A drive of 500GB for data/programs is grand but I'd suggest something along the lines of 80-120 GB for the OS, and OS alone. That's if you can source such a small drive of course.

I'll reinforce the advise to go for a good PSU, buying cheap costs more in replacements over the life of the machine. 1GB of vRAM is plenty, check the cards specs and ensure it offers a bandwidth of over 50GB/s, below that and you'll struggle with the higher quality graphical settings.

gptech wrote:An i5 weak?

As he's at the top end, beyond even, suggesting buying SSDs is a wee bit silly. A drive of 500GB for data/programs is grand but I'd suggest something along the lines of 80-120 GB for the OS, and OS alone. That's if you can source such a small drive of course.

I'll reinforce the advise to go for a good PSU, buying cheap costs more in replacements over the life of the machine. 1GB of vRAM is plenty, check the cards specs and ensure it offers a bandwidth of over 50GB/s, below that and you'll struggle with the higher quality graphical settings.

I did say a bit he
My main computer has an i7 960

I use in my backup-pc (one in reserve in case I have problems with that main pc) an i5 3570k. Does the job with RS.
A hard drive is good for data, only and because an SSD is still too expensive for large volumes.
Although the prices are affordable with Samsung.
http://www.hardeschijfstore.be/product/ ... 00-gb.html

Have a look for the Samsung SSD 250 GB.
http://www.hardeschijfstore.be/product/ ... 50-gb.html

The days of the hard disks are almost over
And I suppose you certainly know the benefits of an SSD.

But ok, if money is an issue then I understand that perfectly.

For what it's worth:)
I use now an Asus GeForce GTX660. (DirectCU II Top, 2gb DDR5)
A bit expensive but quieter in operation.
Motherbord = Gigabyte Z77X-D3H (not the top but good enough).
=========================================================
And For what it's worth:)
1 Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H
2 Kingston HyperX Genesis 4 GB DIMM DDR3-1600
1 Intel Core i5 3570K + Scythe Shuriken Rev. B

Total= 457,85 euro.

I have just purchased a new computer from Quiet pc, ordered on Monday and being delivered tomorrow (Thursday). Fantastic service.
The spec is:
Quiet PC Serenity range with:
Nexus Thrio 310 accoustically lined case.
Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H motherboard.
Intel core i7-3770K 77w CPU.
8Gb Corsair (2x4Gb) XMS3 DDR3 memory.
Zalamn ZM500-GS PSU.
Crucial 256Gb SATA 3.0 M4 SSD as OS disk.
Sony AD-5280 24x DVD writer.
Sapphire ATI HD7870 Flex GHz edition 2GB GDDR5 graphics card.
Windows 7 64-bit Pro.

I intended to transfer across from my existing computer.
1 x 256 Gb Crucial SATA 3.0 M4 SSD as a Data disk.
1 x 500 Gb Seagate Momentus 500 Gb hybrid drive used mainly for photographs.
1 x 2 Tb Seagate Barracuda Green SATA II 7200rpm HDD.

My existing computer will then be transferred to my wife to replace her older machine. Both machine are networked together.

I'm hoping the new machine will run quietly but be powerful enough to run Train Simulator 2013 at maximum settings as well of course all my other software.
For backups I use Macrium Reflect to produce a daily image of the OS and Data drives which are stored on the 2Tb HDD. I also take a backup to an external Buffalo MiniStation 500Gb USB 3.0 portable hard disk approximately once a month, which is kept by one of my neighbours as an off-site backup. I also have a 30Mb cable internel connection.