Atomic Systems

Curiouser and curiouser said the little girl, and the confused old bloke....

Just copied the river folder back into the Assets tree and added the stream that's been causing bother alongside the IOW ditch, saved, exited the game completely. Works like a charm now which completely refutes the assertation that the asset causes bother.......

The only straw I have left to grasp at is that the .bin files for the tiles now conform to how TS2013 likes them, rather than an issue with any asset.

Oh well - at least we have a way to continue to run this route by various methods. Just the frieght line to check out when I get time.

Hi traveller,
Just thought I woulld let you and others know that I have the Kngttrains assets you refer to installed (asset pack No2) ,
but if you look carefully at the logmate error it is listed differently.
I have tried to add the assert as logmate has it listed, but the error still is happening.
Cheers Stan

stanec1 wrote:Hi traveller,
Just thought I woulld let you and others know that I have the Kngttrains assets you refer to installed (asset pack No2) ,
but if you look carefully at the logmate error it is listed differently.
I have tried to add the assert as logmate has it listed, but the error still is happening.
Cheers Stan

Use RW Tools to check the route, if it shows as missing in there then just swap it for the one you have; located in the ..\\Assets\kngtrains\Misc_NG\railnetwork\TrackRules folder I presume?

RW-Tools shows I have no missing assets. The missing tracks and semi group houses I installed from some old backup. I only removed the one SAD file ,X sec. I assune the 158 xc no longer exists and RW-Tools shows it as 158 Silver so I swapped it with that one.
Everything runs fine until Carmarthen station in the first 2 scenarios. In the first there is a red which never changes as platform 1 in Carmarthen is full. So I pass it eventually and attempt to couple to the 158 in front as instructed. SBHH at this point.
In the 2nd scenario I get to Carmarthen and drop passengers then change cabs for the return trip,I tried to save here but then SBHH.
Is there something unstable at Carmarthen still? Shame there are problems as it is a marvellous route as is W&B which I still run.
I can't really understand the process to swap those scenery water assets with RW-Tools. Is there a tutorial for that?

In theory removing the river.XSec file should get round the problem, all that should happen is that without that file the asset can't be displayed so the game doesn't see a problem. However, RW often doesn't adhere to theories so it would be wise to swap the scenery asset out, or even just delete it altogether---it is just a stream round the edge of a field, and you can't see much of it from the cab anyway!
For tutorials you'd be best off reading the manual, or visiting the RW Tools web site but the procedure is just the same as for swapping locos, just make sure when you try to swap a loft item you swap it with another loft item, and have the correct type of asset selected in the selection options box---I know that's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard but I'm not at a RW enabled PC so can't chuck in a couple of screen shots.

Carmarthen should however be too far away to be affected by this issue, so you could have another problem breaking through there. Can you fly around Carmarthen OK in Editor mode?

EDIT: It'd help if you named the scenarios, just because they're the first 2 in your installation doesn't mean they'll be the first 2 in anybody else's.

Thanks I'll look for the RW-Tools tutorial. It's easy swapping lrolling stock but the scenery swap looks more complicated. Easy when you've done it once I reckon.

The 2 scenarios I tested are the first 2 shown in the RW-Tools list
1B39 Fishguard Har-Swansea v3
1L62 16.00 Pembroke Docks-Lon Padd
I'll remove the whole SAD \scenery \river and see if that makes a difference.The only problems seem to be around Carmarthan station. I can zoom all around there pressing key 8 view
but saving there and trying to couple to the 158 caused SBHH.
I'll try the other scenarios anyway. I have 16GB RAM and run WCML,N.Europe and the Italian routes at max detail so I don't think it's a memory problem.

stanec1 wrote:Hi traveller,
Just thought I woulld let you and others know that I have the Kngttrains assets you refer to installed (asset pack No2) ,
but if you look carefully at the logmate error it is listed differently.
I have tried to add the assert as logmate has it listed, but the error still is happening.
Cheers Stan

As far as I remember LogMate reports errors using a 'double \\' instead of the standard path with a single \.

So, as far as I can see nothing is missing - and RW_tools would not report track rules as 'missing' anyway?

Hi Trav,

Have you looked at the other posts on here from myself and Bob Latimer.

It looks like most of the SBHH problems occurring in 3rd party routes are caused by bloated Kuju folders (especially those with huge numbers of reskins in them).

I have found that by moving the Kuju\RailSimulator folder and downloading the default one from steam, I end up with 2.8 gigs instead of 9 gigs in that folder.

This has allowed all those routes I was getting SBHH on to run correctly, although of course I did need to check the route with RW_Tools first to find any repaints in the original Kuju folder which were being used by the route and add them to the newly downloaded one.

On top of this, I have added a new option to RW_Tools to remove any entries in the RouteProperties.xml file for Providers/Products which were not being used.

Mike

My Kuju folder is already 9.9 GB And I only reinstalled RW after TS2013. I run other large routes with no problem so I don't think that is causing my own problems on SWW.
Should the older class 158s be changed to use up to date geo files ?I know some are pretty ancient now and they downloaded with the geo file already installed.
Should the geopcdx file from the default 158 be used for the ATW 158s ? I see the Alphaline ones use the NR geo file.

Clemmo47 wrote:The 2 scenarios I tested are the first 2 shown in the RW-Tools list
1B39 Fishguard Har-Swansea v3

Check that you have the marker CJ17 for the signal stop after leaving Carmarthen actually in your route---or it may even be a scenario specific marker. Dropping into Scenario Editor and going to 'Timetabled View' is a good way of checking, select the service and you'll be able to check its path and see if it actually 'sees' where it should stop.

mikesimpson wrote:It looks like most of the SBHH problems occurring in 3rd party routes are caused by bloated Kuju folders (especially those with huge numbers of reskins in them).

I'll go along with that Mike, to a point but I don't think it's the definitive cause---certainly a major contributor and there's ovewrwhelming evidence that slimming down that folder does reduce the number of SBHH crashes. The last few posts in this thread which have concentrated on SADs river asset illustrate however, that what can be immediately seen as a problem, with an easy cure, could also be RW throwing us a 'curve ball'. We flagged SADs asset as a 'rogue' one, bearing in mind it was released back in RS days so we could say we're pretty lucky it's lasted this long, but on further investigation it seems the asset has only been related to the problem, and implicated as the cause. You could say we treated the symptoms, not the disease.
Many will be suffering from 'Kuju bloat', most probably because in some small way some MSTS thinking crept in---why the great need for reskins of individual locos when RW sports dynamic numbering?, in fact was the core programming designed to accomodate this?
The Package Manager is also becoming a discredited item, perhaps there's a connection between using that to install assets/reskins that's contributary? It's been noted in the GCR thread (I think) or possibly in the SBHH one yourself and Bob have concentrated on that at least one user has seen an improvement by copying over stuff rather than re-installing through .rwp/Package Manager.

I fancy that we might get lucky and find out how all these lines of enquiry are related, and eventually work out just what exactly lies at the root of the problems.

Clemmo47 wrote:Should the older class 158s be changed to use up to date geo files ?I know some are pretty ancient now and they downloaded with the geo file already installed.

That's odd, as a DLC item no .GeoPcDx files should be included in a reskin package. However, there should be no need to swap anything about, a revised .GeoPcDx may even mean the textures don't map correctly thus clouding the issue.

There are SBHH in all the first 3 scenarios I tried so far.Llanelli station the last one.
2E10 Swansea-Pembroke Dock.
The old ATW 158s all have geopcdx files if you open the .rwp file you can see.
UKTS 22614, 22542, 22536. May not be the problem as I think they all run ok on W&B still.
I'll check the marker you mention.

gptech wrote:

mikesimpson wrote:It looks like most of the SBHH problems occurring in 3rd party routes are caused by bloated Kuju folders (especially those with huge numbers of reskins in them).

I'll go along with that Mike, to a point but I don't think it's the definitive cause---certainly a major contributor and there's ovewrwhelming evidence that slimming down that folder does reduce the number of SBHH crashes.

My Kuju folder is 10.1GB .. yes, lots of repaints. But, to play devil's advocate a bit, the thing that makes me question whether the size of the folder is at all implicated in the SBHH problem is the following. Why am I able to repeatedly run perfectly well a route's scenario "A" which has, say, 25 consists, all repaints, but I'm not able to run the same route's scenario "B" that has an equal number or more of consists, also all repaints? If the SBHH problem is in some way memory-related vis-a-vis the size of the Kuju folder, why wouldn't it manifest itself consistently, at least on the same route? My hunch is that there's got to be something else at work here. Apparently there are others here on UKTS whose Kuju folders are just a bloated as ours who are having little if any difficulty after the update. What are the differences between their installations and ours? This may be a more fruitful direction of investigation.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Clemmo - as mentioned in my reply on the Steam folder your symptoms a experienced by mean always point to an asset overload. Inability to save and random SBHH are always a sign to me to switch asset sets or create a new one. SWW I found to be especially sensisitve and I have to run it with its own Kuju folder and content folder

mikesimpson wrote:On top of this, I have added a new option to RW_Tools to remove any entries in the RouteProperties.xml file for Providers/Products which were not being used.Mike

Whta version number is that in Mike - v4.0.24 is the last I have?