WCML North - Missing Speed Warnings

[37114]

Hi folks,

I've noticed there are a lot of missing speed warning boards on this route (and indeed the associated AWS). Has an update been released to fix this?

Thanks

[andynwt]

It might be by design.

[37114]

It might be by design.

Strikes me as by laziness. It's supposed to a simulator after all.

[DazrahT]

I've got a few gripes with the speeds on the WCML North, but some may be to do with the way Railworks is programmed and not the actual route

EPS Speeds; if you are driving a non-EPS (Enhanced Permissible Speed) train, then the speed restriction is the PS (Permissible Speed) instead [ie. the round sign with a red circle]. Railworks ALWAYS reads the higher speed, which is incorrect.

Differential speed [two speeds on same sign eg, 30/45] there are some differential speeds that show its higher for a freight train than a passenger train, somehow, without referring to the sectional appendix, I think this is wrong. Think this is around the Law Junction area.

Insufficient braking distances; there are some speed warnings that are far to close to the speed that they apply to. There is one speed that drops down to a 40 mph speed restriction, I think it's from 75/80mph, but the warning board is too close to the commencement of the speed it applies to.

Magnets for speed warnings too close; this isn't confined to just the WCML North, several developers will put the permanent AWS manget for a speed warning either at the sign or just before it, the rules state this should be 200 yards (183 metres) from the board.

[AndyUK]

Are you saying there are speed warning boards known to be present in real life that aren't showing in the route on your PC or are you just assuming that they are missing because you expect them to be there?

Andy L

[malkymackay]

There tend to be fewer Speed Warning boards in real life compared to what sometimes appears in some simulated routes. Driver's in real life would have the route knowledge & the Sectional Appendix to let them know where speed limits change. You can have a look at the Sectional Appendix that includes WCML North here

[firetrap1]

FYI - speed warning boards are only required if the speed limit change is greater than 30mph:

- change from 100mph to 90mph requires no warning board

- change from 100mph to 50mph does require a warning board

[DazrahT]

Found one of the speeds I'm referring to

Over the Calder Viaduct on the Up Holytown line it's permanent speed of 40mph. The approach is 75mph, on a 1 in 100 downhill gradient. The 40 Warning Board is far too close.

[gptech]

Found one of the speeds I'm referring to

Over the Calder Viaduct on the Up Holytown line it's permanent speed of 40mph. The approach is 75mph, on a 1 in 100 downhill gradient. The 40 Warning Board is far too close.

Is that 'far too close' based on the recommened/stipulated distances or on first hand knowledge of the area?
One of the beauties opf the game is that anyone can drop into 'World Editor' and put right these tiny errors in any route, and when they have it perfect they can contact RSC and offer them the 'improved' version to ensure we all have the correct version.

Strikes me as by laziness. It's supposed to a simulator after all.

Yes, a simulator not a replicator

You're both new to the forums, possibly even new to the game itself, so the history of the routes build may be something you're not aware of. WCML was started off by one guy, Keth, as his spare time hobby project. Much of what you see on screen was researched by the same single guy, so it's quite acceptable and forgivable that minor inaccuracies crept in. Bear in mind there's over 100 miles of route involved here.

[FoggyMorning]

Magnets for speed warnings too close; this isn't confined to just the WCML North, several developers will put the permanent AWS manget for a speed warning either at the sign or just before it, the rules state this should be 200 yards (183 metres) from the board.

This is useful info, I wasn't aware of this and am guilty of placing the AWS much closer than this to the speed restriction warning.

[37114]

Yes, a simulator not a replicator

You're both new to the forums, possibly even new to the game itself, so the history of the routes build may be something you're not aware of. WCML was started off by one guy, Keth, as his spare time hobby project. Much of what you see on screen was researched by the same single guy, so it's quite acceptable and forgivable that minor inaccuracies crept in. Bear in mind there's over 100 miles of route involved here.

As a product marketed as a simulator it should do that. As a commercial product that has been available for a while now it should have known issues resolved. They haven't been. We have all payed a lot of money for products from the Kuju/Railworks/Train Simulator family and there are bugs that go back to the original product that to this day remain unfixed in spite of continued investment from many thousands of people.

Just because I don't post on here often doesn't make my opinion as a paying customer invalid.

Speed warning boards are there in real life. Yes a driver has to learn the route but there are indeed things there to remind he or she too (you've heard of human error?). This is the land of Health and Safety. Do you really think the Railway Inspectorate would not allow them to be there?

I've not criticised the route or the person that created it! Just pointing out an (easily fixed) shortcoming that if addressed would make an outstanding piece of work perfect. As a fan of Railway Simulators is that not what we should aspire to?

[37114]

Are you saying there are speed warning boards known to be present in real life that aren't showing in the route on your PC or are you just assuming that they are missing because you expect them to be there?

Andy L

Rules and regs of the railway dictate they would be there in real life.

[37114]

There tend to be fewer Speed Warning boards in real life compared to what sometimes appears in some simulated routes. Driver's in real life would have the route knowledge & the Sectional Appendix to let them know where speed limits change. You can have a look at the Sectional Appendix that includes WCML North here

I would be extremely surprised if they're not fitted as standard on a high-capacity high-speed line like the WCML. Learning the Sectional Appendix is one thing, human error is another. I'm a former Signalman and I've had the pleasure of a fair few cab rides and every route I've traveled on has them.

[DazrahT]

Is that 'far too close' based on the recommended/stipulated distances or on first hand knowledge of the area?

Based on driving the route; seeing the warning board and then having to ram the anchors into full service, and still go through the 40 speed doing around 60mph.

[gptech]

Based on driving the route; seeing the warning board and then having to ram the anchors into full service, and still go through the 40 speed doing around 60mph.

So, just like me you don't know for certain exactly where, or even if, the warning board is located. At least you now have the 'route knowledge' real drivers spend years attaining and know to reduce speed in this location accordingly.

If in real life the board is situated elsewhere you can easily shift the modelled version in-game, though of course any changes you make would be reversed when verifying the game files.