Train Order Working

Have you given it a go? Post your experiences, particularly things that worked well. Let the team know what works and doesn't work as they cannot test the software with every combination of routes, activities and content available for MSTS. OpenRails is actively being improved and is quickly approaching v1.0. This is a great place to discuss what you can do with OpenRails.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

I have downloaded and started using the AU SA Adelaide, Hills & SE route. I used the MSTS AE to create a new activity, running from Adelaide to Victor Harbor. After a little "persuasion" I got it running in OR but came across a new (to me) feature on leaving Mount Barker Junction, where there is a board announcing "Start of Train Order Working". When using the Autopilot feature, a short distance beyond the board the speed limit changes to 0 and the train stops abruptly. By switching to user control I can make progress until a point a little later where a 40 mph speed limit is shown, when I can change back to Autopilot and continue happily down the track. So my question is this: What am I supposed to do? If I stop short of the board and wait a while, will I get permission to continue? If not, how does it work? Any clues anyone?
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

A bit of insight since my last post.

The effect I have described seems to be unique to OR. MSTS of course has no Autopilot feature, so I created a new activity with my player train stationary on a siding at Mount Barker Junction, waiting for an AI train, identical to the one in my original activity and on the same path. I ran it in both MSTS and OR and found the AI train stopped in OR, in the same way as in my original activity, but in MSTS it carried on down the track, unimpeded. I've had a good look at the region with the MSTS RE and found nothing unusual, so I'm more baffled than ever. The work-around is, of course, to change to player control before reaching the unknown object and to drive through, switching back to Autopilot later, but that rather defeats the object of using Autopilot. Maybe there's something odd about Autopilot. Has anyone experienced anything similar? If so, perhaps there's a bug to report.

Would appreciate any suggestions, please.
User avatar
DarwinS
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1355
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:08 am
Location: York

Re: Train Order Working

Post by DarwinS »

Not sure if it is related, because I don't understand how either issue works. But BrianB has reported that the Jubilee locos that I recently loaded crash auto-pilot and have to be driven manually.

viewtopic.php?f=324&t=153259
Regards

Darwin
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

Hi Darwin

Thanks for that. After reading that, it occurred to me that the problem might be related to the particular loco (or carriages etc.) that I was using, so I tried again with something completely different. I found that this worked OK, both as a player train or an AI one, I didn't experience an actual sim crash, just strange behaviour, but evidently there is some sort of undesirable interaction between OR and certain types of rolling stock.

I extended the experiment by driving my original train beyond the place where I had found the problem, to see if anything similar happened again, but it ran normally after that to the end of the line. I also tried switching between player control and Autopilot several times immediately after it had stopped at the problem point and found Autopilot always resulted in a stop (with speed limit set to 0) until the next speed limit, when it reverted to normal. Something about that train is setting the limit to 0, whereas other trains do not. I guess there may be some others that have the same effect - it would be a long experiment to find them!

The Victor Harbor branch is interesting in itself, as I discovered when I Googled it. It became cut off from the rest of the network when the Melbourne-Adelaide line was converted from broad gauge to standard, and was run as a heritage line for some time, but as far as I can ascertain it is now disused. It seems the spelling Victor Harbor is the official one, preferred by the locals for some reason, but the Harbour spelling is used in the sim and I found from Google Earth that the station name board is still visible there with the Harbour version. My wife and I live in UK and visited our daughter in Melbourne some years ago, during which time we drove to Victor Harbor and found it a charming place. While there, we took the horse-drawn tram to Granite Island and walked all round it. That tram is faithfully modelled in the route, whch made it all the more interesting.

Sorry to have rambled on. Thanks for your comment. I'll carry on experimenting.

Regards,

Alan.
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

Since my previous post I have been experimenting. I have made two paths to use for the experiments: one is the full path from Addelaide to Victor Harbor (or Harbour, take your pick); the other is a short section spanning the problem point just beyond Mount Barker Junction. I have used 7 different consists, both as player trains and AI trains over the short path and am currently trying them all out on the long one - all as player trains, as it would be a tad impractical to set them all up as AI trains. So far, here are my results:
AI on short path Player on short path Player on long path
2 x Class 50, 12 carriages Fail OK Fail
2 x Class 50, 8 carriages Fail OK Fail
Class 50, 12 carriages Fail OK Fail
Class 50, 8 carriages Fail OK
Class 50 (light) OK OK
2 x Class 50 OK OK
2 x GP38-2, 6 freight OK OK

(Sorry, when editing, the table looks fine, but when submitted the spaces get shortened. I hope you can make sense of it.)

From this it seems the problem may lie with the carraiges, rather than the loco(s), but it seems very odd that the same consist as a player train fails on the long path but is OK on the short one. I plan to complete the table in due course, but each run on the long path is over an hour long and I don't always have the time to complete it in one session. Watch this space!

I should add that when the train stops, the sim continues running. Road vehicles continue, and so does the clock. Just to illustrate what happens, I've attached a screen grab showing a stopped train with the speed limit set to zero.

(Hmmm. I thought I'd attached a screen grab but it doesn't seem to be visible, even after trying three different ways. Let me know if you would like to see it, and suggest another way of doing it.)
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

This is what the table was intended to look like. I've replaced the spaces with dots, so hopefully that is now readable.

.........................................AI on short path.....Player on short path.....Player on long path
2 x Class 50, 12 carriages.................Fail.........................OK.......................Fail
2 x Class 50, 8 carriages..................Fail.........................OK........................Fail
Class 50, 12 carriages.....................Fail.........................OK........................Fail
Class 50, 8 carriages......................Fail..........................OK
Class 50 (light).............................OK...........................OK
2 x Class 50.................................OK..........................OK
2 x GP38-2, 6 freight......................OK...........................OK
slipperman12
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 5756
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am
Location: North Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: Train Order Working

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Alan,
This is a real conundrum?

Looking at your chart, it appears that short trains didn't stop. Therefore, I created a short activity (Ambleside to Victor Harbour - although I never got that far!) and started with a 6 vehicle consist (Class 50 + 5 Mk1 coaches). This went through the area without any problem. A consist of 8 vehicles also went through OK. 9 vehicles or more caused the train to come to a sudden DEAD stop (no slowing down!) with the rear vehicle just clear of a sign showing 40mph, just after the junction. This sign doesn't act like other speed limit signs in that, although it appears on the Track Monitor when approaching it, as soon as the lead loco passes it, it disappears, but the Autopilot doesn't respond to it. When it disappears from the TM, it's replaced by another, 0.2m ahead on the next signal, to which the Autopilot does react.

I can't even guess the cause of this problem, but, if it helps, the longest consist which went through OK was 165.22 metres (loco + 7) whereas the loco + 8 was 185.77 metres long. Irrespective of its length, the train stops when its rear vehicle has just cleared the first 40mph sign.

I think we need someone with an intimate knowledge of Autopilot to explain this!
On the good side, Autopilot is a wonderful facility to have when performing this type of testing :)

All my tests were performed using the Player in the same activity using ORMG 88.1. (Will carry out further tests with the current version).

Cheers,
Ged
Intel i5-4690K (3.5Ghz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB) graphics card, Asus Xonar DS sound card. Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
slipperman12
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 5756
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:50 am
Location: North Nottinghamshire, UK

Re: Train Order Working

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi,
UPDATE
The same results have been obtained using MonoGame Version 91, Testing Version X1.3.1-308 and Unstable Version U2021.03.01-1736.
Logs are available for the consists which stopped and those which didn't for each version.
For those consists which didn't stop, the activity was terminated at the next station, Littlehampton.

The problem occurs just after Mount Barker Junction station on the branch to Mount Barker.

Cheers,
Ged
Intel i5-4690K (3.5Ghz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB) graphics card, Asus Xonar DS sound card. Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

Hi Ged, good to hear from you.

I guess you're probably right about the train length. I haven't checked whether the loco has arrived at the next speed limit when the train stops, but I'm wondering whether it overlaps the ends of the speed limit section and gets a touch confused. I'll try that later. Meanwhile, it's still odd that on my shortened path the trains only stop when they are AI trains, not as player trains, but they do stop on the longer path - that's how I first encountered the problem. It would also be worth my trying the same train with one fewer carriages. To save creating a new activity I could uncouple one as it starts. Then, if it still stops, try again with two uncoupled etc. I'm typing this on a different machine, so can't do that immediately, but will let you know how it goes.

Alan.
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

Another update.

I've tested various consists involving player-driven trains on autopilot with Class 50 locos on the long version of my activity. I've found:

Using 2 locos with 5 carriages, train does not stop.
Using 2 locos with 6 carriages, train stops.
Using 1 loco with 3 carriages, train does not stop.
Using 1 loco with 4 carriages, train stops.

From this, the problem seems to be some function of train length, but using 2 locos allows a longer train to pass the problem point, which seems counter-intuitive.
It also makes little sense that doing the same test on a shortened version of the activity produces different behaviour, in that ALL the trains pass through without stopping.

I think it's time to abandon this anomaly, unless someone comes up with an answer! I'll turn my attention to something else....
alanturk
Been on the forums for a while
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 am

Re: Train Order Working

Post by alanturk »

I don't know whether anyone is still interested in this topic, but I thought it worth mentioning another anomalous behaviour on the other branch leaving Mt Barker junction. Having not run OR for a while (and not to mention the hassle attendant on a failed PC and obtaining a new one etc etc) I have eventually started it again, this time using the SAR Mt Gambier Express Down activity, which runs fine and keeps to timetable in autopilot mode, but stops dead soon after passing the points to take it on the other branch from the Victor Harbour one. Switching to player control enabled me to start moving again, but going back to autopilot stopped the train again. This happened several times until the train had gone some way down the track, after which, autopilot reverted to normal behaviour.

I'm not holding my breath for an answer, but someone may perhaps be interested.

Alan.
Post Reply

Return to “[OR] General OpenRails Discussion”