Brake problems

This sim is a brand new, free game engine built on a Windows XNA foundation. It breathes new life into MSTS content as OpenRails is backwards compatible with MSTS routes, activities, and train sets. It's actively in development and approaching v1.0. Please visit the OpenRails web site for minimum HW specifications and software dependencies. The best way to participate is to ask questions as many members of the OpenRails development team participate in the forums.

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Drogba11CFC
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Brake problems

Post by Drogba11CFC »

I have been having problems with several items of rolling stock in OR, such as the 07, the 08 and the 158s from Dorset Coast and the Black 5 that comes with NWE v3.

When I release the brakes, the train refuses to move, even on full power. I have tried every trick recommended here, but the 159 still shows "Release 90inHg EOT 30" and the Black 5 still won't move; and the vacuum is shown as 43inHg.

The scenarios in question are "Homeward Bound" for the 159 and "Little North Western Circular Tour" for the Black 5.
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Laira6420
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Re: Brake problems

Post by Laira6420 »

I tried Homeward Bound some time ago and thought it was me when I could not move off from Weymouth. I have just tried to start off but it will not move.

Shall be interested if there is a solution to the problem.
slipperman12
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Re: Brake problems

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi fellas,
Vacuum brakes still don't work correctly under Open Rails - it is the subject of a thread on Elvastower raised by David Forrest.

Have you tried initialising the brakes - <SHIFT> + / keys together?

Cheers,
Ged
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coolhand101
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Re: Brake problems

Post by coolhand101 »

Some of the engine setups for vacuum brakes are wrong( the class 159 on vacuum ??). Yes, they worked in MSTS but OR is looking for correct readings. I'm unsure if ticking this option on the experimental tabs does anything for vacuum brake trains:- "Correct questionable braking parameters". Also in the general tab, there is "graduated release airbrakes", try unchecking that one.

On my DMMUs, the vacuum brakes work good. On my diesel engine using vacuum with vacuum brake wagons, there is very very slow release rate when i have more than two wagons in a consist. On the real things, there was a system called "exhauster speed up", where the driver would press a button and the exhauster would worker harder or the second exhauster kicks in to assist.

Atm, i can't remember if using high release and apply rate, did fix my diesel and wagon vacuum brake rates.

Thanks
dennisat
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Re: Brake problems

Post by dennisat »

slipperman12 wrote: Vacuum brakes still don't work correctly under Open Rails - it is the subject of a thread on Elvastower raised by David Forrest.
I've been putting up some comments on this subject on Elvas Tower. In my experience OR does work with vacuum brakes except for the lack of ejector functionality which, of course, mainly affects GWR models. Responsiveness to the controls, however is sometimes very slow. This can be very frustrating but can be altered by editing the eng/wag files. I've usually found that the necessary alterations don't affect driveability in MSTS. I'm also aware that the majority of users don't want anything to do with altering these files. More problems are caused by what I can only describe as bad eng/wag files. Some of these contain random mixtures of badly specified vacuum and air brake parameters which are just impossible. How MSTS copes with this mish mash is amazing. This doesn't mean MSTS does things the "right way", it just means the train "goes" and as a result most people think that's the way things should happen.

Dennis
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slipperman12
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Re: Brake problems

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your clarification - I stand corrected :)

After about 15 years, we've got used to the way MSTS works and it's difficult to change old habits! As you point out, there are many users who aren't happy modifying .eng/.wag files. The result is that take-up of Open Rails hasn't been so great as might have been hoped.

Cheers,
Ged
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Drogba11CFC
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Re: Brake problems

Post by Drogba11CFC »

Cracked the 159; I replaced the brake system with one from a NWE Class 150. The down shot is that the brakes now go from release to full service, but I can now move the 159.

I'm no stranger to tinkering with files and scenarios.
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a214sli
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Re: Brake problems

Post by a214sli »

slipperman12 wrote:there are many users who aren't happy modifying .eng/.wag files. The result is that take-up of Open Rails hasn't been so great as might have been hoped.
The solution being, release of new/amended stock designed for OpenRails...?
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dee4141
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Re: Brake problems

Post by dee4141 »

Alternatively, OR basic eng/wag file templates that would provide an initial start point. One of each for steam, diesel and electric would help.
PGH60
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Re: Brake problems

Post by PGH60 »

Hi,in the NWE route activity Coast to Coast Express with Jubilee 45690 I also cannot release the brakes no matter how I try.Thanks,Peter.
slipperman12
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Re: Brake problems

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi Peter,
The reason the 45690 consist won't move is because the brakes on all the Mk1 coaches are set to "Emergency"!

The loco and tender have BrakeEquipmentType set to "Vacuum_brake, Handbrake, Auxilary_reservoir" and the BrakeSystemType to vacuum_single_pipe. Unfortunately, although the Mk1 coaches have BrakeEquipmentType set the same as the loco, their BrakeSystemType is set to Air_Single_Pipe!!

I'm pretty sure that's the reason "Leander" won't move - I've proved it by uncoupling her from the coaches, when she started OK.

Your options are to either edit the .wag file of each coach, or replace the coaches with genuine vacuum braked versions.

This is not the same brakes problems as mentioned earlier, but is definitely an error in the .wag files - or is it an MSTS fudge to allow the coaches to be used with vacuum- and air-braked locos??!!

Cheers,
Ged
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stephenrwells
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Re: Brake problems

Post by stephenrwells »

Hi Peter and Ged,

Just to confirm that although brake types can be mismatched in MSTS with Open Rails the whole consist must have the same brake type, the only exception is that you can mix vacuum_single_pipe with vacuum_piped. However, Open Rails doesn't like a Vacuum_piped wagon at the end of a consist - if a brake van I normally change it to vacuum_single_pipe with a max brake force of 0KN as below

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Handbrake, Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakeSystemType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 0KN )
MaxHandbrakeForce( 25kN )
NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 )

Regards,

Stephen
PGH60
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Re: Brake problems

Post by PGH60 »

Hi Ged and Stephen,thanks for the replies but as I have often said before I am reluctant to start changing files as I end up making things worse.So I guess I will just not run this activity in OR,it seems that OR has still quite a way to go in solving the brake problems or will they ever? But I must say that so far it is improving all the time for the better.Thanks.Peter.
copperpen
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Re: Brake problems

Post by copperpen »

Open rails will never solve the problem of mixed data in the eng file. They must be all air brake or all vac brake, not 50/50 in the same eng file. That will only be solved by editing the faulty files.
slipperman12
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Re: Brake problems

Post by slipperman12 »

Hi,
I agree, you can't expect Open Rails to make allowances for such situations.

If anybody wishes to change the Mk1 brakes, I can confirm that the train now starts, BUT the brakes on the Class 47 helper, at the rear, also require changing from air to vacuum! I don't know how realistic that is - did Class 47s have vacuum brakes?

Cheers,
Ged
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