Form follows function?

[RSderek]

Or function follows form?

This post by loco had me thinking...

As if we ever would like UK train-stuff. Which is old, diesel pollution and no design: square box on wheels
I am glad Europe is modern, electric trains and great design (for example German trains)

I'm no Walter Gropius and I'm not sure the discussion would change anyones opinion but I'd be interested in what people think is 'great design' for Rail traction and why.

If you are intrested let me know your thoughts.

regards

Derek

[Trainguy76]

It's just everybody's opinion.

For example, I think the "perfect" sim would be one that had a selection of locos/trains from every country. (ie. the french trains, German trains, US trains, Australian trains, Other European trains.)

People who like steam trains would obviously push for more steam
Same for DMUs, Emus, Electrics, Diesels etc.

I personally like EMUs and Electric High Speed trains.

[Dougjuk]

For me its good old BR 1970-1985ish, not really interested in much else.

Doug

[Wikkus]

I think people have somewhat missed Derek's point -- either that, or I'm about to be served up a huge portion of humble pie :s

The question isn't "What do you like?" it's "What, in your opinion, makes for 'good design'". For example, the Porsche 911 is, for many, the perfect (sports) car -- it may not be aesthetically pleasing to all, however, it is designed to do a specific job and that (most would agree) it does admirably whilst still retaining (at least in modern guise) an incredible degree of practicality for a car of this ilk.

On the other hand, Scaglietti's Ferrari 250 GTO is an achingly beautiful (in many people's eyes) thing and yet is not in the least bit practical.

Which, therefore, is the 'better' design? They're both sports car

It's not just about whether it looks 'nice' it's about whether it does the job it was intended for.

So, back to trains; what makes for *great design* when it comes to trains?

For me, it'd probably be one of the more modern US GE or EMD locos on grounds of practicality, e.g. the ES44 or the SD90MAC, although you've got to hand it to the venerable GP-38-2 for the 'all-rounder' title.

For our own stuff, I'd be hard pressed to commit; there's next to nothing I don't like amongst every one of the so-called 'legacy diesels' (even 31s, lol), although, if I'd have to pick one for characterfulness, I'd probably choose the old Swindon-built Type-1 'Teddy Bear' aka Class14.

Rik.

[Ooveecouk]

I like choice.

[smarty2]

Hi Derek, i have always thought British designs as rather functional and quite austere, boxes on wheels is a pretty astute observation, there are a few exceptions of course, but having lived in Germany when i was a boy those lovely loco's and wagons captured my imagination far more than the "grubby" English offerings even the steam loco's! There were several that really stood out for me as a kid in the late sixties (1969) and that was the BR103 which was stunning in design and knocked me out when i saw them, the TEE both here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzir4WI ... re=related VT601 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCubJEG ... re=related The Bubikopf BR64 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OKFkwj-yIg And of course the Schwarze Elefant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOz984r- ... re=related
Aaah bring back those heady days

[RSderek]

Hi,

I'm certainly not talking 'Sim' here, it's a general question. For example, the ICE train does nothing for me, but the TEE VT11.5 does.

regards
Derek

[smarty2]

The TEE was an aspirational thing then, you can jump on an ICE these days but then it was definitely more of an experience, the atmosphere was different then, but it seems very plastic and clinical these days imo, i had been on a few trains on my hols in Switzerland recently and the experience of riding the "old" stock was better because of the wood and soft cushiony seating even the old bacolite had it's place! Design was just so much better and had character, things were just well thought out, and i must say even the modern stuff over there is better than the unimaginitive stuff you get here the missus said, "why cant we have trains like this in blightey"?

[eyore]

When I was a lad I used to love seeing the Streaks zooming through Darlington, and to this day, they are the one loco guaranteed to bring a smile to my face.

They were very functional but beautiful in form.

[RichardScott]

Well, as I've just posted elsewhere, I don't think any train was as beautiful as the original Blue Pullman. It was the E'Type Jag of the train world (although I would take the Ferrari 250 GTO as a close rival carwise!). It was a complete concept of aesthetics and technology (which unfortunately was never quite sorted completely). As with all good design, everything was considered as part of the package. From the look of the train to the passenger experience and even the menus!

Cheers

Richard

[bab7000]

It's not possible to discuss design (Art), as it is individual. Therefore there has to be more designs to pick from.

Talking about trains, it think the UK trains is butt-ugly. But loved by UK people, because thats what they grew up with.
I love old diesel designs from Denmark, because thats what i grew up with. But also loving the TGV's streamlined design (and it drives well to), and the Swich BE 6/8 II. Not a beauty, but a lovely design.,

In RW i mostly use DB101, because the rest doesn't work for me. I just dont like the designs

Bab

Forgot the German Class 602 as a beauty

[kingsgate]

GWR Scott 4-4-2 or Saint 4-6-0, in the pre-1912 livery. Very specific, I know, but you got the beautiful Swindon lines, that delicate looking taper boiler, those elegant wheels, that tiny little cab that seemed in proportion, despite it all, those enormous cab steps...and you got the colour. Deep Green, Bright Orange and a beautiful Indian Red, coupled to polished brasswork. They weren't just locomotives, they were works of art, and they made a massive impact. Certainly, even a model of a Scott 4-4-2 is guarenteed to leave me burbling like an idiot...

Tor-K

[RSderek]

Bab, you can discuss all you want, there is no winner or loser.
Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

It just makes for an interesting discussion on a saturday night waiting for Match of the Day to start.


regards

Derek

[phill70]

Well, for sheer practicality, I don't think you can beat the 47, or 33 for that matter, simply because the cabs are a nice place to be, unlike some others.

These new things are just

square box on wheels

[bab7000]

Bab, you can discuss all you want, there is no winner or loser.
Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

It just makes for an interesting discussion on a saturday night waiting for Match of the Day to start.


regards

Derek

Exactly, and just like politics and the weather
And if you consider making a TEE VT 11.5 one day, please make one i danish livery : http://www.jernbanen.dk/lyntog_solo.asp?LokID=62
Thanks in advance

Bab