RS.Com Is this what we want?

[Paul_Boland]

The video is amazing, I loved it, but agree the lack of other trains was noticable. The lighting at night was astrounding. I personally think the RW game engine is what's limiting the implimentation of such effects in RW and I know RSDL have said that it's a work in progress, improvements will be added as time goes on, but if your game engine can't handle the effects you want, unless you're going to patch a whole new engine into the sim, I believe we won't see such effects till RW 2 or whenever RSDL decide to start from scratch with a new game engine.

[sniper297]

Not taking into account the limitations of pre rendered video here.

http://www.heroesofthepacific.com/

That has stunning graphics combined with excellent framerates, but it is NOT a simulator, it's an arcade game. You're limited to a bunch of prescripted missions and can't fly more than a few miles from the center of the map, so it's not even close to a true simulator. There's the problem, when you pre render video you can get great eye candy, but you have to limit where the player can go and what direction he can look in order to make it work. With a simulator you need to code it to react to where the player goes and which way he turns the view, no way to predict that so it all has to be rendered in real time. Good example here;

http://www.realrailway.com/en/enoshima/simulator.html

That looks realistic because it IS real, it uses actual video of the real thing. The price you pay for that is no mods, no coupling uncoupling, no switching, all you can do is start, speed up, slow down and stop, you can't even turn your head to look out the side window because there's no video for that. Compromises will always be necessary, you want ultra realism or versatility? My opinion Railworks already has the best balance of both, if they get the signals and AI traffic working better it would be the perfect trainsim for me.

[Oldpufferspotter]

Thanks for that description Sniper, that puts it all into perspective.
I know compromises have to be made in all things, and I think there are too many people wanting too much from RW. Get the operation of the 'railway' right first (AI trains etc) then you can start wanting every little whisp of steam and gurgle from some obscure bit of pipe included.
regards Ted.

[Acorncomputer]

I have to say that I like the swaying branches. We already have swaying grass in RW so perhaps a few branches doing the same thing might be relatively easy.

Time to call for Super Derek

[AndyUK]

Thanks for that description Sniper, that puts it all into perspective.
I know compromises have to be made in all things, and I think there are too many people wanting too much from RW. Get the operation of the 'railway' right first (AI trains etc) then you can start wanting every little whisp of steam and gurgle from some obscure bit of pipe included.
regards Ted.

Conversely why not improve the driving experience first by implementing some of the features of BVE / OpenBVE that people have praised as well as sorting out things like the correct operation of UK air brakes and stepped braking for the 166 & HST, and fix the operations side of things like AI later?

RS.com can't please everyone at once so I wonder whether the "drivers" or the "operators" will have more influence over the direction the next upgrade takes?

Andy L

[AndiS]

Anyone seriously in for a serious sway, PM me. You do the animation, I do the script. You can have an animation played during while the train approaches from 100m away, then another while it passes, then another while its tail moves away (again, for 100m). Alternatively, it can be time-triggered.

You need to know your way around animations, though, it may be necessary to have animation loops. You can also switch between different animation sets based on the speed of the train (more sway for more speed).

However, I think that this is really the wrong way forward. The plant watchers are already in heaven with this sim. The "operators" are about to complete their withdrawal. The "drivers", well, it depends on what is important for you. If you love to look out of the window and don't care much about those colour lights outside, or enjoy their flashing without asking much, you got nearly all you wish for. If you ask stupid questions about steam in the cab but not at the cylinder cocks, you lost, because making the bushes sway is 100 times easier than producing realistic exhaust (and sound), so if a few more moan for bushes, this is what the next update will bring. Looking at the enthusiasm raised by a single headcode box on a single engine, RSC are totally right to serve the remaining customer base well with wigwag and tilt. NB while trains already tilt, track cant is not on the horizon, because that could be difficult to calculate, and -- for whatever good reasons there may be -- fixing the switches is still on the waiting list.

[Locoro]

http://www.realrailway.com/en/enoshima/simulator.html

Thanks for that link. Its funny to play with!

[Shadders]

Hello,

There were only two things I liked about that video:

The night lighting was nice.

The super elevated track was nice.

Having one or both in RW would be nice too. But I'm not really that bothered if neither make it into RW because there is much still that needs to be done with the core program. I won't go into all of them because NutronIC summed them up quite nicely on the front page of UKTS. The only thing I'd add would be better documentation for creating content for RW. Something I could print out and have open next to me as I went through the motions described. But it also needs to explain what can go wrong and what you can do to fix it.

Of course I'd love to see the software improved to the extent that the world editor is idiot proof for making routes and scenarios and its a brease to import assets into RW. But in the absence of those things being just around the corner, documents that go into detail about what to do and just as importantly what not to do would be a god send.

Cheers,

Shadders.

[growler37]

Hi
As i have mentioned earlier, a massive upgrade of the sound in RW would be a huge step forward,this is the area were RW falls flat on its face,accurate sounds in cab, and externaly, surely isnt that hard to implement,but with RW the sounds havent been changed since RS its almost like RS.COM consider it a minor issue,maybe after the fiasco with the hall sounds, they will take it a bit more seriously,may i suggest handing over any future sound upgrade planned, to an external source to produce, rather than inhouse.
BVE sound is stunning! it gives the virtual railway a real world ambiance which is vital to a train sim,anoucements as you pull into a station,or the onboard voice give it that familiar realism.
Regards
Kevin

[miglietto]

... its almost like RS.COM consider it a minor issue...

At this point I'm really wondering what's the major issue for them.
On which new feature are working on ? Does anybody knows ?

[pspvoyager220]

I agree with you Kevin, although it seems harsh, there is no default soundset in RW that I would find "stunning" or particularly realistic (The Deltic sounds and possibly the 37's are probably the most accurate, but that's about as far as it goes). A major upgrade would be good,

However, this video looks stunning because it is only filmed in the good parts. Like everything, the bad parts are not mentioned or included in videos, obviously, and BVE has some very bad parts to it, such as some of the soundsets sound very low in quality and sound like they've been recorded from a phone, as I mentioned earlier. But you'd expect that from something free, wouldn't you?

[smarty2]

Yes, some sounds may be kak in BVE but even those are better than RW's default crud I agree totally with Kevin.

[barrybryce01475]

Blimey! It's come on a lot since I last tried it out!

[smarty2]

Blimey! It's come on a lot since I last tried it out!

Yes it has, i am just hacked off that i can't use it in Vista, mind you though who knows when those routes will be released?

[jimmyshand]

Hi
As i have mentioned earlier, a massive upgrade of the sound in RW would be a huge step forward,this is the area were RW falls flat on its face,accurate sounds in cab, and externaly, surely isnt that hard to implement,but with RW the sounds havent been changed since RS its almost like RS.COM consider it a minor issue,maybe after the fiasco with the hall sounds, they will take it a bit more seriously,may i suggest handing over any future sound upgrade planned, to an external source to produce, rather than inhouse.
BVE sound is stunning! it gives the virtual railway a real world ambiance which is vital to a train sim,anoucements as you pull into a station,or the onboard voice give it that familiar realism.
Regards
Kevin

I agree totally Kevin. BVE sounds are superb and kept me enthralled for a good while in the void between MSTS becoming dated and RS coming out.
Here's my take on the 'big 3'

SOUNDS

MSTS
Best Bit - Lots available, easy ability to find a soundset you like and set up all your loco's to that soundset.
Worst Bit - That frustrating delay between powering up and the sound then responding. You could go full throttle and then back to idle twice over and the sound would still be only half way up to full revs for the first blast!!

BVE
Best Bit - Everything, the best track sounds ever, good ambient sounds, accurate engine sounds and realistic in-cab sound effects.
Worst Bit - The engine sound corresponds to current speed rather than power handle setting. I.e. 100% power at 5mph and you still only get just above idle sounds!

Railworks
Best Bit - Railworks was only saved by Armstrong Powerhouse and that chap who did the improved track sound. That said, the fact that the sounds respond to the power handle is very nice and a big improvement
Worst Bit - All of the default sounds but particularly that shocking random, patternless snare drum track sound.

Graphics

MSTS
Dated and old and how anyone can still use this program is beyond me. The dated graphics killed MSTS for me a long time ago.

BVE
Good for a freebie but obviously limited and not spectacular, poor models etc although the Birmingham route is still a good bit of eye candy.

Railworks
World leader for graphics by a country mile. 360 degree cabs are mindblowing too.

Physics

MSTS
Poor. Very much a linear experience with little feeling of real movement

BVE
World leader for realistic movement. Cab sway and corner tilting give an unbeaten feeling of movement. Great lighting effects, cab goes dark in tunnels etc Superb.

Railworks
Better than MSTS but only because of the improved graphics. Poor lighting effects although shadows improved with RW over RS.

Gameplay

MSTS
Probably has the gold medal here purely because of the almost infinite number of models, routes and detailed engrossing scenarios available. Limited realism though with poor or no simulation of train equipment, AWS, vigilance aides etc.

BVE
Superb simulation of all train equipment however virtually no interaction possible with outside world.

Railworks
Getting better but obviously struggling with severe lack of stock, routes and scenarios. That said when you get a good one the earth moves, literally!! Class 37 on the Crouch Valley springs to mind!