Atomic Systems

SNIP

ka959 wrote:
I can see absolutely no reason om Earth why RSDL can't come out straight and tell us honestly whether or not they are positively able to provide proper, illuminating headlights on diesel or even steam locos, but when most of the locos produced so far, are generally British and European, with the rare exceptions, but I cannot see anyone wanting to model a New Zealand Dx or Dc diesel electric loco, or Ef class electric loco, etc. with correctly-working headlights, anytime soon, just to make us Kiwis happy

Regards...

Jim McDermott

/SNIP

Big NZ locos are coming... currently sorting the cabview/sounds for a DSC, toying with the idea of a DFT or the likes next up - though I'm a steam man, so certainly no promises.
http://www.TSNZ.co.nz

On topic of lights, from the New Zealand rail safety gobbledegook comes this: "The ditch light beams are to be aligned so that they intersect and touch the ground at a point 250 metres straight ahead of the centre line of the rail vehicle." One would assume the headlights would be focussed at the same spot. Anyway, I'm not overly fussed if my locos lights are lighting up the country side, doing mostly day time running - cant check animations if you can't see them!

ka959 wrote:I can see absolutely no reason om Earth why RSDL can't come out straight and tell us honestly whether or not they are positively able to provide proper, illuminating headlights on diesel or even steam locos,

Forgive me for saying so, but didn't Derek pretty much do this already? I think the answer could be summed-up as "currently, no".

but when most of the locos produced so far, are generally British and European, with the rare exceptions, but I cannot see anyone wanting to model a New Zealand Dx or Dc diesel electric loco, or Ef class electric loco, etc. with correctly-working headlights, anytime soon, just to make us Kiwis happy.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, Jim -- you appear to be saying that you cannot see why anybody would model NZ prototypes with prototypical headlights yet you don't state what sort of lights these are. Do we therefore assume that they are US-style "flood 'n' spot" style lights? If so, then there is indeed a problem because, as I thought we'd established by now, it's not currently possible within RW.

And even though we do have some North American built diesels here, I wouldn't really want to drive too many American diesels, even if they did provide good headlights for the SD-40-2s and the others,

So, this probably answers my earlier assumption. It also means that if the technology was in the game (which it isn't) then if someone did decide to model the examples you cite, then they could have working, illuminating headlights. But they can't. Currently.

Here's a vid from the cab of a CN SD-40-2 at night (in the snow ) and see how much light North American prototype locos throw out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65bKM7y9F6c

and I do like driving the British trains, but am disappointed greatly by the lack of good headlights, and it would be good to see a few different Class 166 or Class 66s with powerful headlights,

Real 66 headlamps are (on the old ones) just a couple of fairly low powered sealed beam units that chuck out the square root of diddly-squat in terms of light :s

Have a look at this vid filmed from the cab of a 66 at night -- note that it barely illuminates the reflective signs at the side of the track. Compare it to the oncoming Dutch train which is visible from way off (despite the rain) and how it throws a pool of light in front of the loco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2eCePtK8N8

The updated lights that the 66s got went some way to improve the lighting, getting shot of the "side lights" and the 5" sealed beams replacing them with 2 clusters of ultra-bright white LEDs and some more powerful 7"(?) sealed beam halogen units. So, in that respect, RS got it bang-on with their rendition of the 66 as first introduced...

and some exactly the same, except with "normal" British "bicycle lamps" on the front, as they prefer them to be, but let us of different preferences, actually be able to place those British locos or DMUs, etc. on our routes, with the sort of headlights we really want to have ! Compromise will suit everyone, I say. Keep us all happy, eh ? Cheers.

I think what you're angling at goes beyond what is right to expect the developers to implement; you seem to be saying that you'd like to see an option to have (and I use the following words advisedly and for the sake of illustration) "Good" and "Bad" lights on all stock...? Want to have a big searchlight on the front of a Black 5? Just click the widget. Nice idea, but kind of overlooking the fundamental lack of illumination in the first place.

Besides, that sort of thing may have been a simple "hack" back in the days of MSTS where peeps could just edit a text file in Wordpad, but it isn't so simple any more. I'm hoping that the tool that Adam is putting together will provide some of this sort of utility in addition to its primary function, i.e. to be able to edit the physics and what-not in a user-friendly manner. However, it's also the sort of thing that developers cringe at because it can be abused or misused and cause even more problems.

Rgds, Rik.

SAVV01 wrote:On topic of lights, from the New Zealand rail safety gobbledegook comes this: "The ditch light beams are to be aligned so that they intersect and touch the ground at a point 250 metres straight ahead of the centre line of the rail vehicle."

This sounds uncannily like the US regs that I linked to in a much earlier response in this thread...

One would assume the headlights would be focussed at the same spot.

Not safe to assume in such things just going by what's already occurred here

The US stuff tends to have the ditch lights, er, lighting ditches, more of a fog/flood type light pattern, i.e. wide-beam. The headlights are a much narrower "spotlight" type beam and are focused much further up the track.

Anyway, I'm not overly fussed if my locos lights are lighting up the country side, doing mostly day time running - cant check animations if you can't see them!

Waaah! Cop-out!

Reminds me of what a mate of mine used to say about his (particularly ratty and tatty) old Moto Guzzi -- "What do I care what it looks like? I can't see it when I'm riding it!"

Rik.

Wikkus wrote:

ka959 wrote:I can see absolutely no reason om Earth why RSDL can't come out straight and tell us honestly whether or not they are positively able to provide proper, illuminating headlights on diesel or even steam locos,

Forgive me for saying so, but didn't Derek pretty much do this already? I think the answer could be summed-up as "currently, no".

... and his answer happens to be found on page one of this very thread. This forum would make a much better impression to the many people who browse it, if all those who are going to complain about what Derek & Adam are not saying would first check out what Derek & Adam said in the past.

Not only North American and New Zealand locos has illuminating headlights. Russian, Ukranian, most of Eastern Europe locos has also illuminating headlights near the top of the crew cab. It illuminates the track area directly in front of the train to permit the engineer to see a specified distance ahead in order to see signals and otherwise operate the locomotive in a safe manner.

Forthcoming russian (RZD) TEM-2 diesel shunter.

mikesimpson wrote:Most Australian locos also have high-intensity headlights, I suspect that outside of Europe, virtually all locos need decent lights for night working.

Heya Mike. At the risk of sounding a pedant, "high-intensity" may mean different things for different folks depending on where one is coming from... We've had "high-intensity" lights retro-fitted to locos for many years in the UK -- late 70s would be my guess as to when they started to be introduced -- and they're of the ilk that they're there for the benefit of people trackside rather than the poor sod driving.

Check out the third image down on this page.

Described as "headlight" here, it's a 5" or thereabouts halogen spot lamp. In the grand scheme of things, it's none too potent.

I am not looking for lights which are perfect at dawn and dusk. Lights like those provided for MSTS where you can put them on low to replicate UK head code lights, or high to replicate U.S./real world locos are perfectly adequate.

My memory fails me here, but I seem to recall that the low-beam lights in MSTS also produced a pool of light in front of the loco...? High beam always struck me as being a little over the top until I saw my first US loco working at night Completely OTT for UK, mind

Cheers, Rik.

i think they should overwrite the complete light code in RW/RS. the light beams must light up the assets too. i'm not really
satisfied with the actual situation. the lights must look more voluminous, because this is very important for the atmosphere.
also there should be a parameter for the light density, because every asset has a different light density(trains etc.)
some engines are 7 years old, and they also can do this without problems and what happened with the heat haze?

greetz

Rail-X

In my personal opinion, "driving" a train in almost total darkness doesn't contribute to the total enjoyment.
This is not a real loco simulator, this is only a game' simple as that. So looking for a real feeling is beyond the scope of $ 50 program.
Like MSTS, Trainz, LokSim 3D and BVE, in order to drive in night time, the game must provide a proper illumination.
Today, most of the traction vehicles are supplied with strong headlights as an available tool for the traction crew.
I just came from a trip to Poland and Switzerland. Both PKP and SBB equipped their main line locos with strong sealed beams (the Lok 2000 and all other SBB locos are installed Mercedes Benz manufactured head lights which are strong enough to illuminate the track ahead)
But, as I mentioned in my previous post, the problem seems to be much deeper in the game core. Right now it looks like not an easy task for Kuju programmers.
Finally, take a look at the Polish trains from the cab of PKP EP09-001 fast passenger locomotive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-LB-Gp8S7U


Adam

buyme wrote:Hi can any one tell me is there any addon that changes them stupied lights that come with the trains in RW they dont even light up tunnles or track at night time .

Thanks for ant help.

My regaurd
Buyme

It really seems that others also seem to share my optimism regarding the lack of "proper" headlights on RailWorks (and, previously, Rail Simulator as well) locomotives and Diesel & electric trains. I failed to understand the general British mentality regarding these lights on trains, and the probable reasons for not adopting them as a lot of other countries seem to have done to date. But it warms my heart to read some of the later messages in this thread, which shows how some of you out there appear to want them in Rail Simulator / RailWorks.

I can't, for the life of me, see why someone can't develop a locomotive with a really good headlight that illuninates well ahead of the train, and include it with a set of several different repaints, that also have "normally" lit British motive power ot DMUs etc. to effectively keep everyone happy. As someone in this threat said, "It's no fun driving a train in darkness" - that would be correct in my opinion. Brits seem to want theit trains to be as prototypical as possible, but we, in countries that use trains with powerful sealed-beam headlights, want to see them being used. After all, the issue with MSTS's very weak headlights on the Dash 9 and GP-38 locos were corrected sooner, rather than later, and today, some VERY good, and VERY realistic headlights are on MSTS locomotives. MSTS did have headlights that worked, but WHY is it so difficult with RailWorks ? Some of us would doubtlessly like to have this explained to us. I feel there are lots of questions unanswered. If MSTS could do it from day one, why not Rail Simulator ? We all want something to enhance our RailWorks experience, but I know we can't please everyone, but surely headlights that really work, isn't asking too much ? Those who really want headlights that work and illuminate ahead of the train, should lobby for it, and not just on American locos. Cheers.

Regards...

Jim McDermott

If it were only that simple..

The very things that make RS / RW visually impressive are the same things that make it difficult to acheive a standard of projected light that sits well overall .
For an example take a look at the HD lighting experiments ealier this year,, from some angles in some shots looked very good... others were pretty dismal.

Each one has to have its output balanced so the overall picture is harmonious, it is possible, the results at present are unsatisfactory.. alternatives are being investigated... do you really want a DX10 only platform ?

Afraid you can't compare, with legacy platforms, they do not have the same complexity of rendering.

You can keep banging the drum by all means , but it won't really make a scrap of difference, when an acceptable( by the developers) method is found it will be on your drives as fast as steam can put it out... meantime we have what we have.. enjoy

Sly

The excuses are pretty funny.

Essentially the excuse boils down to "An 8 year old simulator can project light efficiently on on 8 old computer hardware, but even with 8 year old newer technology and hardware we still can't. Sorry kthx but we do have $20.00 locomotives for sale!!! <3 RS.com"

styckx wrote:The excuses are pretty funny.

Essentially the excuse boils down to "An 8 year old simulator can project light efficiently on on 8 old computer hardware, but even with 8 year old newer technology and hardware we still can't. Sorry kthx but we do have $20.00 locomotives for sale!!! <3 RS.com"

Poor trolling attempt.

Oh, and drop the "L33t 5p34k", this isn't World of Warcrack.

R.

Railsim/ReWorks is still based on the same MSTS source code, there is no legitimate excuse why things that worked wonderfully in MSTS should have been broken in the first place and there really is no excuse for them being broken two years later, two service packs and a whole new release later. If the lights worked partially, why wernt they included, it was quite obvious that the game was half finished anyways, why not throw in another halfass feature so that we have something and it can be redone later. This was done with the attempt at variable particle effects in RW, which to me was one of the few redeeming features as it showed that RSDL was at least attempting to fix the many problems in the sim.

nikos1 wrote:Railsim/ReWorks is still based on the same MSTS source code, there is no legitimate excuse why things that worked wonderfully in MSTS should have been broken in the first place

I do believe you are absolutely wrong about that. The only game that was based on the original MSTS was the first defunct MSTS2 and that was taken back to Microsoft who owns the source code of both. Basically RS/RW is a new game with a new graphics engine that brings with it new problems to solve.

John