Are Community Created Routes Important Anymore?

[Billiam]

Hello,

Lots to take in and some intresting comments from Mr Andi, but I really don't see a community at all.
I have watched from a distance for some time, and I see a group of people that post in anger and spite with only a hand full of people actually being helpful.
I see other posts by users wanting things and complaining there is nothing out there but not willing to do anything themselves.
And finally I see some not wanting to pay for anything and demanding everything should come free.
Many seem more intrested in smart remarks and showing off who knows best.

I have to ask the question, who wants to be part of a community which is full of people like the above?
Is that really how we are? Can we change?
Lets hope RS.com improve the game, and we improve ourselves and how we treat each other.

Thanks

Bill

[paulz6]

Personally, I find the majority of comments towards user created content to be quite supportive, and that there are a lot of helpful people around.

[Acorncomputer]

I think the posts have been supportive and generally helpful but there are very few comments from people who use community created routes.

Having established that there is a lot of interest from community creators .. who are the people who are likely to use this content? There is the silent majority who download and say nothing and we assume that they are happy, which is OK as no response is expected. But is the potential user base increasing or as I suspect, decreasing, despite the push by RS.com into the mass markets. Is RailWorks something that you saw on Steam, paid your pennies for, tried it, had a bit of fun but what you really want is the next update for Half-Dead or something like that.

Will Steam work the other way and get more people involved with sites like UKTS?

Perhaps some of those hundreds of members who look forward to new content and use it, could add a few comments to this thread.

[sniper297]

very few comments from people who use community created routes

Recently looked in this file library and over at Yankee Doodle train-sim.com, most recent uploads and hot downloads the overwhelming majority are still for that 8 year old fossil.


I see a group of people that post in anger and spite with only a hand full of people actually being helpful

Matter of perspective, I don't see that at all. Given that the goal is to reduce the number of gripes, the best way to do that is to fix what the majority want to have fixed, then you're left with only the few who think animated crossing gates and projected headlight beams are the most important thing. There's one guy over in the US who is demanding animated crewman in the cab responding minutely to user control inputs, he wants to directly control a realistic fireman shoveling coal and fiddling with valves, but he's all alone in that idea. To be realistic what are the majority wanting and needing that the game lacks, address that and everything calms down.

Off Topic,



233 years old today, may I offer you a cup of extra salty tea?

[CaptScarlet]

Having established that there is a lot of interest from community creators .. who are the people who are likely to use this content? There is the silent majority who download and say nothing and we assume that they are happy, which is OK as no response is expected. But is the potential user base increasing or as I suspect, decreasing, despite the push by RS.com into the mass markets. Is RailWorks something that you saw on Steam, paid your pennies for, tried it, had a bit of fun but what you really want is the next update for Half-Dead or something like that.

Will Steam work the other way and get more people involved with sites like UKTS?

Perhaps some of those hundreds of members who look forward to new content and use it, could add a few comments to this thread.

I look forward to any content produced by the community, but if I download and use it is dependant on a number a factors which include, am I interested in it ( especially for a route ) or is it a asset used in a route or scenario.
In regard to your other question re the user base increasing or decreasing it depends on who you define the user base to be and it definitely isn't just the forum members here at UKTS or at TS-Com. Even with MSTS or Trainz a lot of people who buy it, try it and some will keep it and get into it and some will lose interest. Its the nature of gaming and a reflection of their interests but if the game isn't out there then no one will benefit which is where a service like Steam plays a role in hopefully expanding the user base in general, and allowing one hopes further development from RSC to improve the game where it needs it.

Getting back to the community route idea doesn't it depend on why the users who participate in it want to do it ? If it is to help the community by producing more content and because they enjoy it, I would think the size of the community or whether its growing or shrinking would not come into the decision to do it. Now if the real underlying reason ( and I am not saying this is the case ) is for some sort of kudos from producing it, then the size of a community might play more of a role but potentially lead to some sort of disappointment.

John

[CaptainBazza]

If it is to help the community by producing more content and because they enjoy it, I would think the size of the community or whether its growing or shrinking would not come into the decision to do it. Now if the real underlying reason ( and I am not saying this is the case ) is for some sort of kudos from producing it, then the size of a community might play more of a role but potentially lead to some sort of disappointment.

As a long time author of freeware for MSTS1 (and a little for TRS) and latterly RS, I can assure you that the main reason is entirely selfish....it's something you want to do and the timing is right to do it. I posted somewhere else that over 50% of models I've made for the sims have been as the result of a suggestion that sparked my interest. I'm (the author) the one investing time in the project and that goes for all authors whether it's modeling, route building or scenario.

I've invested a lot of time and effort into projects that appealed to me and just a handful of end users. Any kudos accumulated is a nice ego booster and keeps you interested. I don't wish to imply that all authors are egotists.....but if the cap fits...... j/k?

Cheers Bazza

[bigvern]

Further to my earlier comments, yet again I find myself with a couple of half alive or more likely half dead projects on the laptop, which I really can't be that bothered to carry on with.

Add to that I've been busy with work and had a particularly nasty migraine at the weekend, the after effects of which I can still feel today it doesn't encourage you to sit down and build a route. I've done it all before, I'm tired and the knowledge that other than a simple route is likely to have AI or pathing problems (as I found after two hours trying to create an activity on Padd to Oxford last week) doesn't help either. Now I'm not saying I've thrown the towel in either but you do tend to sigh, realise you've done it all before and think what is the point of another tedious flat route using default scenery or getting yet another migraine trying to paint landscape with the useless terrain texture editor.

Personally I think the future of train simming now lies along the World of Subways type path. Professional groups with access to the time and tools to create something that doesn't look like it's been thrown together in a sandbox and I for one am quite happy to pay for that experience (within reason).

[drwho200]

My view is that we will see many more smaller companies/people creating payware routes. Take my Cross Country Major route for example, the amount of track laid at the moment is huge and if all of that gets textured and objects added it would be equal to the default routes. I do love making Routes and I hope that one day the market will rise and I can see a marketplace full of routes and add-ons user created both free and for a low cost download, 50p or so even.

I don't want to charge but the time invested in Cross Country probably totalled an awful lot, time which is limited in this economic climate.

[paulz6]

My view is that we will see many more smaller companies/people creating payware routes. Take my Cross Country Major route for example, the amount of track laid at the moment is huge and if all of that gets textured and objects added it would be equal to the default routes. I do love making Routes and I hope that one day the market will rise and I can see a marketplace full of routes and add-ons user created both free and for a low cost download, 50p or so even.

I doubt we will ever see 50p downloads, as smaller companies don't tend to own their own payment processing systems. 50p is roughly the standard business banking charge for a transaction, so even for a 5GBP product, transaction processing costs are around 10%.
Even if the market place does get bigger, I doubt we will see routes for 50p when currently 5GBP seems to only get you a single wagon, replacement sound set or a handful of scenarios.

[adburgess1992]

I think it depends on what you wont from a payware route because like the IOW that came with alot of content and personally thats what i expect from a payware route. For example i was amazed when i got the West Somerset Railway Pack for TRS because you didnt even need trainz to run it because it required only the game engine to run, all the content was all built in and just think how big that route is and how big the area around it is.

Also i think it depends on what era traction beacuse personally i think Modern Traction easyer than Steam because fair enough Modern routes are longer but your going faster so you see less so im my mind that means less detail needed where as Preserved Routes you are going slower and shorter which mean to me higher detail and higher accuracy.

Like at the moment i am working on the Churnet Valley Railway its all being built from my head because i could use google earth overlays or DEM but that would take some time also its not going to be the most accurate route ever all i want to do it make it look and feel like the Churnet Valley Railway. I proberly wont even release it because im using so much content i cant remember who made it and where i got it from.

Also one last thing is how you look at route building because i always think to myself right im gonna do the track first, but as always i do track work from about one end of the platform to the other then i add a little scenery then a little more and a little more and it exactly the same with Churnet Valley Railway ive done from Froghall to Boltons which isnt that far but there is loads of scenery around it.

[Billiam]

Hello,

I like to think many people are busy doing their own thing, I know I am.
About an hour or 2 every day I tinker with the route and trains, I'm in no rush to finish, because I'd only have to start another one.
Also RSDL have set the standard high with their addons that a few maybe loose heart when they look at their own work and put the tools down.
If your hearts not in it then you'll never enjoy it and I think a few that have passed through here awhile back have show that,

Personally I love coming on here to see what people have made and how they have got there. It gives me hope when I see people grow into wonderful creators.
Peoples work also give me ideas about how I should go about things.
To those that create, please carry on, everyones work is important to someone.

Thanks

Bill

[Acorncomputer]

I hope that we can pick up a few more newcomers to RailWorks who have been bitten by the creation bug.

It is difficult to break free when you are really caught (right Vern?) but new enthusiasm and ideas are an inspiration to everyone and a reminder of just how satisfying the hard slog of creation can be.

[drwho200]

Agreed, it is a joy to see a completed route that others have helped with. I really hope to see the community grow and grow as the possibilities are huge!

[growler37]

Hi
Route building can become a chore,and its amazing how the hours fly by,and i agree with vern it really taxes the eyes.
But it is also a great pleasure,with West Somerset i started at BL and finished at Minehead,in between i added the norton fitzwarren-taunton section to keep the intrest up,with my present route i am really enjoying it,The West Cornwall route 1950,s gives me the chance to recreate my hometown and surrounding area as it was at that time,but the beauty of this project is that if i get tired of a certain area i can move on to another,today i have been concentrating on St Erth, yesterday it was St Ives tommorow it will be Helston,if i get tired of the branch lines i can do some work on the main line,i think the secret is choose your route carefully, make sure it will hold your intrest from start to finish.
Regards
Kevin

[bigvern]

I was musing at work this afternoon that maybe my earlier post was a bit negative, but the facts of the matter cannot be ignored and I'm sure it's one of the reasons why we have not seen the many route builders for MSTS and TRS turn en masse to cloning their routes in RS/RW. As I said, having done some 600 miles or more of routes it's a daunting prospect to start over again.

Anyhow I did get to thinking how to draw something positive from my earlier sentiments. Probably the key thing to analyse is what's causing the creative log jam - in my case two main things:- The daunting almost fearful prospect of having to detail a 50 or 60 mile route and my lack of ability with the RW terrain paint. So maybe the thing to do is move those out of the equation. Pick a short route and something in an urban setting - maybe even cut and cover or a large proportion of tunnel - where having to paint acres of mountains or fields is no longer necessary. An urban landscape can be picked out with scenic items and darks with only the occasional bit of green. Even a muppet like me can knock up some dark brick retaining walls for urban "canyons" with 3D Canvas. This also brought to mind the "Minories" concept of C. J. Freezer of Railway Modeller fame, all those years ago. It is perfectly possible to have a compact but operationally intensive city station as a viable alternative to the rural branch line.

In many ways, the dilemna faced by VR "layout" modellers is very similar to those working on a real model. How do you get the best use out of the space and not have to spend ages filling up empty areas with scenery? In some ways this is what Rich Garber did with Rascal & Cottonwood though the influence there was very much the Kalmbach style plan rather than Peco, but the principle is the same.

So maybe I'll get Google Earth out and take a look at freelancing something based on the Circle or District line. Again, emphasise freelance. As soon as you feel you are committed to slavishly following a prototype, there's that lump in your belly. Heck you could even take the Northern Line and do that as cut and cover!