Atomic Systems

cambrian06 wrote:I've been following this thread with interest. While I don't have any problem in principle with using Steam to validate the sim I was hoping that I would be able to install Railworks from DVD on to 2 PCs, one which is connected to the internet and one which has no internet connection (or is anywhere near an internet connection) and updating the second when needed by transferring files from the main installation. If this is not going to be possible it looks like Railworks may be a non starter for me.
Regards,
Andy

Even with a DVD installation of Rail Simulator, the licence only allows the installation of the program on one computer at a time. This is not unreasonable. I have two installations of Rail Simulator and have bought two copies of the main program and all commercial add-ons. I do NOT think this is unreasonable and I am prepared to abide by these rules. The programs will run indefinitely without having to log in with something like Steam every now and then.

One of the questions as yet unanswered is how long can you go offline from Steam before the program stops working and demands that you have to connect to Steam again to make it work. This is the problem that I have as it implies that I might not be able to use the program ever again unless I log in to Steam. There are many unanswered questions and I for one await the answers.

Acorncomputer wrote:One of the questions as yet unanswered is how long can you go offline from Steam before the program stops working and demands that you have to connect to Steam again to make it work. This is the problem that I have as it implies that I might not be able to use the program ever again unless I log in to Steam. There are many unanswered questions and I for one await the answers.

Forever, as long as you're not updating the software (unless of course RW has it's own 'online' rules & functions...

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_art ... -AGCB-2555

OK, so what happens if the people who want rid of Steam from the DVD version get their wish but then RS.com say that they will only release upgrades for the DVD version in large packages, a bit like Mk1 & Mk2 whereas the people who downloaded and have a Steam account can receive all the little upgrades as and when they are released from RS Towers? Do the complaints then start that people don't feel that the DVD is on an equal footing?

Steam was chosen for a reason and although I don't really agree with some of the concept of it, it is the path I have chosen as I am trying to support RS.com and their new product. It is also the most effective way that I see for future upgrades rather than hanging around and waiting for an Mk package like with RS. Of course, I may be wrong, who knows whether the Steam updates will come in large chunks or not.

On the other side of the coin, I presume there may be some sort of contract signed that gives Steam the rights to the activation of the DVD product, again I don't know for sure as this isn't my area of expertise but what if the threats of not buying the DVD version became widespread and RS.com were left with no option but to break that contract? Would that mean that as a Steam user I would then have no means for support or even the option of re-downloading the product if needed? Of course, this wouldn't matter as it would seem I am one of the many people "stupid" enough to buy the product through Steam in the first place. If that sounds harsh, I apologise, but some of the posts now flying around the board are starting to make me feel as if I have done something wrong.

Hi

Much of the ill feeling has come from the broken promise that you would not require Steam (at all) to run RailWorks.

Darpor wrote:If that sounds harsh, I apologise, but some of the posts now flying around the board are starting to make me feel as if I have done something wrong.

No, you've done nothing wrong & I think, at least, we can all agree to defend each others right to choose.
If the manufacturer/producers of the product offer no choice then all we have is the choice of 'to buy or not to buy'...

Acorncomputer wrote: Even with a DVD installation of Rail Simulator, the licence only allows the installation of the program on one computer at a time. This is not unreasonable. I have two installations of Rail Simulator and have bought two copies of the main program and all commercial add-ons. I do NOT think this is unreasonable and I am prepared to abide by these rules. The programs will run indefinitely without having to log in with something like Steam every now and then.

I think it's highly unreasonable, if I purchase a game on DVD it is up to me how many installations I make as long as they are only for my personal use and are not being shared with others.
Regards,
Andy

AndyUK wrote:

stephenholmes wrote:Again I draw your attention to Paul Jacksons statement

Stephen,

If you're refering to the statement that I quoted in my earlier post in this thread then please get the facts right. It is not a statement by the RS.com CEO Paul Jackson but a statement over 2 months old by Tim Gatland who was the CEO of RSDL at the time.

Andy L

Fair comment Andy I meant Tim Gatland
To Darpor, No you havn't done something wrong, but you have signed up to Steams Terms and Conditions.
I think there was a plan by Tim Gatland to have something in place to satisfy both the DVD users and those who like and use steam
The point still remains though, that if we the DVD purchasers use this product we too sign up to the steam client.
Kind regards Stephen

cambrian06 wrote:I think it's highly unreasonable, if I purchase a game on DVD it is up to me how many installations I make as long as they are only for my personal use and are not being shared with others.

What you think and what the law says are 2 different things. The End User Licence Agreements have been tested in court and in the UK at least it has been held there is no "fair use" provisions that appear to apply in some countries.

If it says in the EULA (and it usually does) that you can only install it on 1 PC then that is all you should do. Some software companies have ways of enforcing this with the use of licence keys etc. others require the software to be activated online.

cambrian06 wrote:

Acorncomputer wrote: Even with a DVD installation of Rail Simulator, the licence only allows the installation of the program on one computer at a time. This is not unreasonable. I have two installations of Rail Simulator and have bought two copies of the main program and all commercial add-ons. I do NOT think this is unreasonable and I am prepared to abide by these rules. The programs will run indefinitely without having to log in with something like Steam every now and then.

I think it's highly unreasonable, if I purchase a game on DVD it is up to me how many installations I make as long as they are only for my personal use and are not being shared with others.
Regards,
Andy

Errr, nope, it really isn't.

If it says one PC at a time in the EULA, that's what it means, regardless of if they are yours or not, sorry.......

We all have to abide with the EULA (End User Licence Agreement)
This is common practice and I along with most computers users accept this.
However you only accept it providing you install and agree to use the software under those terms
Otherwise you do not purchase the said software.
Kind regards Stephen

Some people like to install software on their desktop and laptop computers. As long as they are not both being used at the same time, there is no problem. I have a lot of my software installed on both machines, one being used at any given time. The only thing is, I don't think Steam will let you install the software onto another machine if it is already active on one machine. It's a shame.

AlexanderMeerkat wrote:

stephenholmes wrote:Hello Alexander
Yes I am aware of this fact
And I can tell you I will not install RailWorks
You have chosen to accept the terms and conditions but it doesn't mean I have to
Kind regards Stephen

No Stephen, of course you don't mate.

But you are only denying yourself participation in your own hobby.

Obviously Railsimulator.com have signed agreements with Valve for distribution of RW.

Which i cannot see will be revised, due to opinions on this forum.

You have to remember that hundreds of people will play RW and never join this forum or ts.com

The bigger picture has to be taken into account.

UKTS or TS.com are not the centre of the trainsimming universe.

You are right of course.

paulz6 wrote:Whilst I am opposed to DRM and aspects of steam, steam seems to be a lot less restrictive than DRM enabled downloads.

Personally speaking I avoided much of the "Official" Railsimulator payware due to the 'eLicensing' protection system (3 installs and that's it..), however, I did break down and buy the IOW add-on. I'm currently on my 2nd activation / license now due to a wipeout of a system drive so I've only one left now.

At least with Steam for the majority of games, provided I've logged in to my valid Steam account I can always download my purchased games whenever I need to without any real restrictions.

I see that it looks like the "Official" payware add-ons are going to be made available for Steam and if this happens then I won't hesistate to buy them in this manner since they won't contain the stupid 'eLicense' system.

I'm all for copyright protection, but it's got to be a sensible system - Steam is a good sensible system - 'eLicensing' / 'Starforce' / 'SecuROM' (to a degree) / and others shipped with games often are NOT sensible..

stephenholmes wrote:Hello Paul
Yes this may well be the case
Kind regards Stephen
Ps I think you may find that those who ordered the DVD, were doing so on the basis it was steam free
as per Paul Jacksons statement.

Yes and I am one of them. This isnt the first occassion that RW has broken a statement, it does not matter
who makes the statement provided he / she was in employment with RS or RW when they are made.
If RW is not sticking to its statements it makes when people are buying their program
what will it be like when sales slow to a trickle ?

I wanted the DVD because a statement was made that it would be Steam Free, that has changed so I'm for cancelling
my pre-order, however, I'll wait 'till nearer release date to see if RW will carry out it's promise made to not use Steam.
If not, then its a no from me.

Crazy aint the word for all of this caper.

Absolutely right.

As with most forums, us, the posters, will always be the 'vocal minority'...