RSC DLC - Greater Variety Of Routes Needed

[bigvern]

However West Highland and Highland Main Line - though highly desirable - probably fall into the category of longer routes. Fort William to Mallaig possibly at 41 miles but even then I couldn't see that selling for less than the going rate for a "major" project.

[matt1314]

I'd prefer to see more routes from the US, like the very famous Tehachapi Pass which was made by 3DTrainStuff for MSTS. That was an amazing route to run and I would love to drive it in RW! I mean, sure RSC is a small British company giving us such an amazing simulator but they focus too much on English routes. There are too less routes set in the US or somewhere else. We have the Horseshoe Curve, the Northeast Corridor and the default already included Cajon Pass. Also - if you want to count that in - the fictious Castlerock Railroad. But that's it from the American side if I remember well.
I'm personally a very big fan of American EMD's and other huge powerful locos. Sure many of us here are English and like to drive English trains. I have nothing against English trains, to me they were like a totally new world as I've never driven them before when I was playing MSTS. Only when I changed to RW, I could see what British trains are like. It's just that we have too many English things out there.
We got some of them in various DLC's (like SD70ACe or SD70 Volume 2, various SD40-2's, ES44AC's or Dash 9's) but we have far too less routes to run them on. American scenarios being set mostly on the Cajon Pass get a bit boring over some time because you know the route already too well even if you have new locos, scenarios and trains to drive...

[MallardFan]

Looking through the DLC:

Fort Kent to Eagle Lake RailWorks Add-on
Railworks Ohio Steel 2 Expansion Pack
northeast Corridor Expansion Pack
Horseshoe Curve Expansion Pack
Portland Terminal Expansion Pack
Rascal & Cottonwood RailWorks Expansion Pack (Fictional)
Colton & Northern RailWorks Expansion Pack
Donner Pass: Southern Pacific

They are all American routes, ad not including the default routes

Trouble is as RSC is a UK company, its easy to get UK routes, you can hop on a train and go to wherever in the UK, but the US is slightly harder.more costly to get to...

[johnnywilliam]

Looking through the DLC:

Fort Kent to Eagle Lake RailWorks Add-on
Railworks Ohio Steel 2 Expansion Pack
northeast Corridor Expansion Pack
Horseshoe Curve Expansion Pack
Portland Terminal Expansion Pack
Rascal & Cottonwood RailWorks Expansion Pack (Fictional)
Colton & Northern RailWorks Expansion Pack
Donner Pass: Southern Pacific

They are all American routes, ad not including the default routes

Trouble is as RSC is a UK company, its easy to get UK routes, you can hop on a train and go to wherever in the UK, but the US is slightly harder.more costly to get to...

Next time someone on facebook moans about a lack of US content i'm copying the above list. Never seen it layed out like that - and JT do a couple of US Routes too!

JW

[faedundee2]

How about RSC do an industrial route set in the mid 1950s with only a small bit of mainline with most of the route being mines, exchange sidings and gas works, etc. with track that causes the cab to bounce around more than when riding a roller coaster?

[Kariban]

Looking through the DLC:

Fort Kent to Eagle Lake RailWorks Add-on
Railworks Ohio Steel 2 Expansion Pack
northeast Corridor Expansion Pack
Horseshoe Curve Expansion Pack
Portland Terminal Expansion Pack
Rascal & Cottonwood RailWorks Expansion Pack (Fictional)
Colton & Northern RailWorks Expansion Pack
Donner Pass: Southern Pacific

They are all American routes, ad not including the default routes

Trouble is as RSC is a UK company, its easy to get UK routes, you can hop on a train and go to wherever in the UK, but the US is slightly harder.more costly to get to...

Of those, HSC, NEC and Donner Pass are RSC productions. Portland is G-trax - who haven't released the latest one through steam, and all the rest are Rich Garber's work, some of which are the ones on the JT site and they're all available elsewhere. Colton & Northern is also fictional I think.

[gptech]

How about RSC do an industrial route set in the mid 1950s with only a small bit of mainline with most of the route being mines, exchange sidings and gas works, etc. with track that causes the cab to bounce around more than when riding a roller coaster?

Would it sell though?
Remember RSC are a business, so accordingly they need to make money and to make money means selling routes*.
To sell a route means it has to capture the imagination of the majority, be an iconic route that rail fans will want and still offer enough to tempt the newcomer.
Personally though, such a route would appeal to me.


(*Admittedly there may be more money to be made by selling DLC, but somewhere to run the stuff is still needed)

[Natvander]

How about RSC do an industrial route set in the mid 1950s with only a small bit of mainline with most of the route being mines, exchange sidings and gas works, etc. with track that causes the cab to bounce around more than when riding a roller coaster?

Would it sell though?
Remember RSC are a business, so accordingly they need to make money and to make money means selling routes*.
To sell a route means it has to capture the imagination of the majority, be an iconic route that rail fans will want and still offer enough to tempt the newcomer.
Personally though, such a route would appeal to me.


(*Admittedly there may be more money to be made by selling DLC, but somewhere to run the stuff is still needed)

Therein lies the problem - would it sell. The funny thing about sims like these is that while the 'hard core' enthusiasts are certainly the ones who are the most vocal about content, the vast majority of users (i.e. customers) never log in to a forum. So while 90% of vocal forum members may be all for a Channel Tunnel route (as an example), that 90% may only make up 5% of total customers and the remaining 95% may be very hesitant to buy.

It's quite a fickle market.

[faedundee2]

How about RSC do an industrial route set in the mid 1950s with only a small bit of mainline with most of the route being mines, exchange sidings and gas works, etc. with track that causes the cab to bounce around more than when riding a roller coaster?

Would it sell though?
Remember RSC are a business, so accordingly they need to make money and to make money means selling routes*.
To sell a route means it has to capture the imagination of the majority, be an iconic route that rail fans will want and still offer enough to tempt the newcomer.
Personally though, such a route would appeal to me.


(*Admittedly there may be more money to be made by selling DLC, but somewhere to run the stuff is still needed)

Therein lies the problem - would it sell. The funny thing about sims like these is that while the 'hard core' enthusiasts are certainly the ones who are the most vocal about content, the vast majority of users (i.e. customers) never log in to a forum. So while 90% of vocal forum members may be all for a Channel Tunnel route (as an example), that 90% may only make up 5% of total customers and the remaining 95% may be very hesitant to buy.

It's quite a fickle market.

Maybe RSC should put a poll for what routes customers would like to see on the steam stores page, there by all customers will see it.

[gypbrc]

Would it sell? is a topic that can be debated on and on without any real outcome, since as has been pointed out; the user base at large will never take part in the discussions. The best answer would be try it and find out, but then you have to weigh up the risk element with the reward element.

Someone pointed out (I can't remember who) that some routes sell simply because of the name value. WCMLN, ECML (CreativeRail), SECML, Settle-Carlisle, Woodhead, NEC, Horseshoe Curve all fall into this category. There is still a good few more lines in the UK alone which could be marketed this way; The Brighton Mainline is on it's way and there is still room for a Midland Main Line, Great Eastern Main Line, Chiltern Main Line, WCML and ECML out of London. These are routes that a significant portion of the TS2012 user base would purchase (in the UK example) simply because of the natural variety and scope of operation and the greater familiarity with the prototype.

Then there are the secondary routes such as Portsmouth Direct, Edinburgh to Glasgow and Bristol to Exeter; with room for further releases in the form of the West Anglia Main Line, Breckland Line, Snow Hill Lines, Cotswold Line, Cross City, and a bunch of similar examples up North. These would be less popular since the scope of operation is more limited and the name alone generally won't conjure up people's interests unless they're from the area.

Finally there are the branch lines. There have been quite a number of these released too; Cornish Clay, Falmouth Branch and Darlington - Bishop Auckland. There are too many other real world examples to name but they generally either fall into the category of short and sweet or long and drawn out.

Having spent the last two years building the branches of Norfolk I remain unconvinced that it would be well received by the userbase in general owing to its lack of scope for operation. The best way forward to help with this has been to model a small network of routes emanating from a city. There are other examples around the country that could be built the same way.

[bigvern]

The key to my suggestion is RSC finding a short but iconic route and using that to test the water. I'm not sure what's involved in getting the blessing of a heritage railway, obviously for MSTS Blue Arrow tied up a pretty good deal with Severn Valley almost to the exclusion of anyone else having a go at doing an alternative version.

Of course, preserved railways are already a popular target for freeware authors due to the short length and relatively self contained infrastructure. In fact some are so popular, they're even being done twice (NYMR)! However there's got to be at least a couple of the more well known preserved railways and most of the narrow gauge ones that nobody has made a serious attempt to replicate, which could fit the bill. If some of the proceeds went back to the railway that would be worth a few more £s on the price, too.

[stuart666]

The key to my suggestion is RSC finding a short but iconic route and using that to test the water. I'm not sure what's involved in getting the blessing of a heritage railway, obviously for MSTS Blue Arrow tied up a pretty good deal with Severn Valley almost to the exclusion of anyone else having a go at doing an alternative version.

Of course, preserved railways are already a popular target for freeware authors due to the short length and relatively self contained infrastructure. In fact some are so popular, they're even being done twice (NYMR)! However there's got to be at least a couple of the more well known preserved railways and most of the narrow gauge ones that nobody has made a serious attempt to replicate, which could fit the bill. If some of the proceeds went back to the railway that would be worth a few more £s on the price, too.

Well they already did that with IOW. I guess IOW was popular enough, but for variety of scenarios its kind of hard to do anything other than go up the line, and go back. Heritage lines for a lot of reasons are not really a great thing to model. 25mph track speed and simplified operation over single tracks. Thats not a criticism of those who model heritage lines, but ultimately I think if you want to model steam operation halfway accurately, you kind of have to take the route back to the steam heyday in my view. Severn Valley is a great route to model. But perhaps far better to model it before they shut half of it down.

I think the Modern Cotswold line has much to commend it. That and it wouldnt take a lot of work converting it back to GWR/BR heyday with the inclusion of links to other routes, ie Snow Hill to Cheltenham, Banbury and Cheltenham direct, Shipston on Stour Branch, Fairford, etc etc etc.

So many good ideas, so little time.

[Acorncomputer]

My experience with Heritage Railways is that whilst there is interest amongst the members in what you are doing, they are primarily, quite understandably, there to run and develop their own real railways and once you talk about computers and the involvement of Steam in running the simulator, they are completely gone.

I suggested some time ago to RSDL that a series of Heritage Railway Routes could be created, put onto DVD and sold as stand alone simulations at the obvious locations. With hindsight, I can see that the difficulties in running the program on some computers and the changing nature of the program could cause disappointment to casual buyers. The simulation really demands the ongoing connection to Steam and all that entails and it is unlikely that casual buyers of DVD's would want to go to all that trouble.

The bottom line is that the long term mass market for a train simulation is going to be made up of those who are really interested and whilst there will be a certain element of users who like the Career Mode and Multi Player, the core users will ultimately determine the future of the program and will probably have quite a bit of influence over what payware routes are created.

I am sure that RS.com will read and listen to suggestions for routes, anywhere in the World, so anything could be considered.

-

[SquidvT]

I am sure that RS.com will read and listen to suggestions for routes, anywhere in the World, so anything could be considered.

I think they do too, but i also think their route map is probably worked out well in advance. Further from what PJ was mentioning in his recent interview they are struggling to keep up with demand and "recruiting aggressively" to try to meet it.

All one has to do is look on the RSC Facebook page and see where the majority of that demand is coming from. Further USA represents a huge market, as does the rest of Europe, Far east and Russia. Areas that again Paul said they were getting loads of requests from.

Our voice against that huge global market requesting a quaint and overlooked, yet picturesque branch line cant make for much impact. You can please some of the people some of the time, and it makes commercial sense to try and please the majority of your customers.

I think if not freeware routes then perhaps 3rd party devs are the answer. In fact there is no reason why the two should be separate. I think we agree there is a market for these routes, perhaps not as big as some of the main, but even so its there and could be taken advantage of by a good organised team or individual. But to expect RSC to do it could be a bit naive IMHO. There is a huge amount of talent on these boards (with many of the members already the very same creators of the best DLC available). Even considering time constraints it could be the quickest and best way to get a bit more variety .

[Acorncomputer]

We could get some order into the proceedings by forming the National Association of TS Freeware Route Builders.

With our pooled resources and ideas, we could map out our own plans for future routes to cover those that are not commercially viable by RS.com.

First meeting at the Tabard next Tuesday

-