Atomic Systems

gypbrc wrote:

jimmyshand wrote:...some very bland and identikit, generic scenery routes like Horseshoe

When Horseshoe was released as part of TS2012 and made available for download it featured the new TS2012 sky and weather, superelevation, never-before-seen 3D trees with 3D (shadow casting) leaves and full lighting effects. It was the only route to do so. I'd hardly refer to it as bland an identikit.

Agreed it was the only route at the time to have the showcase new features, which incidentally is the only reason I bought it, but it's not just about features, I'm talking about accuracy and detail of the routes too. There is something truly magnificent about Woodhead and Settle to Carlisle, the accuracy and scenery are sublime, the best we've ever seen. I just don't think it is possible for RSC to be able to reproduce that kind of local accuracy of scenery in a route outside of the UK for the simple reason of lack of data and personal knowledge. It has been proven certainly with routes like NEC and Donner that vast swathes of foreign routes will be generic and identikit whereas Settle to Carlisle looks accurate, different and unique round every bend!

The freeware community can do a good job on smaller routes.

I guess there would be commercial problems with a lot of preserved railways so I cannot see RS.com going that way at the moment, but freeware developers have much more scope and may do a better job anyway.

Long routes are more suited to the teams at RS.com but they have a problem in deciding which of those located outside of the UK and US are the most commercially viable.

gswindale wrote:To an extent I agree with Vern that a 70 mile here to there route is a little dull - regardless of the route in question.

What WCML-N had to make it different was the fact that it is more of a network rather than a single route.

Some more network style routes are what is needed. The Portsmouth Direct has potential to be one such route, but needs scenerising.

Similarly L2B has potential, but whether we get it or not remains to be seen.

My thoughts exactly , i'm hoping that London to Brighton has the line from Copyhold up to Ardingley for the ARC stone terminal but I wouldn't bank on it, at least the Stone terminals at Crawley and Purley should be included (shouldn't they?), driving from one end to another soon loses interest for me and more attention needs to be paid to adding sidings and terminals to give activity writers more scope for the limited amount of freight on today's railways.
Simon

Whilst I'm more than happy with RSC's offerings, Woodhead and the S&C are examples of this - TS2012 is crying out for a network of routes, it can be done as proven in the excellent WCML-N.

What TS2012 needs is a network of routes not dissimilar to Great Eastern in MSTS, which is Liverpool St-Norwich/Marks Tey-Sudbury/Romford-Upminster/Colchester-Clacton/Walton etc. In my opinion that is one of the best products ever developed for a Train Simulator. If RSC can do something like that it would be brilliant.

When the very nice Falmouth Branch was released I hoped it would be part of a series. Small branchlines from all the big four with a suitable locomotive and rolling stock to serve it. A smaller price would be good too. When I buy a large route I dont run the length of it, I tend to just potter around a small section anyway. Another benefit could be that with fewer assets and no massive sidings it would be easier on our hardware.

As stated before a greater spread of eras. Not much for steam buffs

I should point out that RS.com will be very happy to consider routes created by others to be marketed through their system, so really the door is open for anyone to have a go ... subject to obvious levels of quality

I remember reading somewhere that the US made up the biggest consumer of RW DLC, which is no surprise going by the size and population of the US, but also the US customers are probably the most dissatisfied! without a dedicated US based team of US staff then any attempt by a small UK company to recreate 100 miles of America will probably not be very good. It's almost impossible to explain but just from having lived somewhere for years you tend to have a detailed mind map of what your country looks like, down to minute levels like fences, fields, walls, barns, houses, roads, pylons, trees, bushes, farms, factories you name it, it looks different in every country and you know your own without even realising it. I used to see the effect years ago when I was in the navy, after coming home from 6 months overseas everything looked really different, familiar but different because your mind map had altered and you noticed crazy details like the size of the letters on UK license plates are huge! You notice how green the grass is! Without this immeasurable local knowledge then any attempts at creating somewhere foreign will not have the accuracy we've come to expect. If people in France, Mongolia or India want DLC routes then they're best off creating their own third party companies to do it.

Acorncomputer wrote:I should point out that RS.com will be very happy to consider routes created by others to be marketed through their system, so really the door is open for anyone to have a go ... subject to obvious levels of quality

Geoff! are you telling us to sell our souls to the devil!

Acorncomputer wrote:I should point out that RS.com will be very happy to consider routes created by others to be marketed through their system, so really the door is open for anyone to have a go ... subject to obvious levels of quality

That's the answer right there. Why should RSC, a small UK company, be expected to produce routes for countries they have no knowledge of and no data to research? It could actually be harmful to their reputation to even try, as famously flopped US routes are testimony too. In MSTS, Microsoft weren't banging out UK routes, that was down to private companies here in the UK to pick up the baton and start up businesses. If there is sufficient demand for a Siberian mining route or a Latvian branch line then entrepreneurs in those countries should seize the opportunity like ours did back in the days of MSTS.

I must say, that the last few routes have been right up my alley. Woodhead (pretty much a nice network with loads to do) ECML (admittedly just a A-B blast, but very worth while and to be expanded) S-ECML (Again loads to do here) and now S & C (Exquisite route, but agreed limited with scenario possibilities)

I love Falmouth, but to me it has limited replayabilty just because its such a short run.

I do think that smaller routes are best done by freeware contributors, West Somerset is a nice example.

That said, I cant wait for this to come out, whilst not exactly small, it does offer some interesting activities.

http://www.fastline-simulation.co.uk/pr ... erals.html

Good thread Vern, I'd also agree some of us would like more and more smaller routes at a lesser price, I'd obtain 2 routes at £14.99 rather than one large route at £24.99, if they appealed to me, and RSC would make an extra fiver out of the sales, I can't understand why they don't do this, although in saying that, Doncaster Works was £14.99, but, didn't go anywhere outside of Donny, so, they'd have to think of the operational perspective, career mode scenarios, etc, of possible layout creations.
I can't see them constructing small European, or, American layouts as the travel, development and research costs may prohibit such a lesser price, but, there's no reason why they can't do more smaller British creations, at least they don't have to travel as far.
At the end of the day, it's horses for courses, but, without RSC making available more smaller routes, we're still limited somewhat in Payware choice, which is what they should be looking at in their Marketing Dept.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

The other thing to bear in mind that routes need to be marketable to a wider audience - Woodhead and S&C are well known even to those with only a passing interest in railways but who enjoy using Railworks. S&C even moreso as possibly one of the most famous routes in the world.

On the other hand, shorter routes such as Falmouth don't neccesarily grab the attention in the same way. It certainly gets a lot of attention on here (as a site with a lot of knowledge), but as a casual user searching for routes for their new copy of Railworks, S&C would probably be a huge draw, ditto Woodhead albeit to perhaps a lesser extent due to it having been closed for some time! However, both routes have famous features to spur the imagination. However, I could not name a single notable feature about the Falmouth branch.

The docks? two lots of docks, even.

jimmyshand wrote:

Acorncomputer wrote:I should point out that RS.com will be very happy to consider routes created by others to be marketed through their system, so really the door is open for anyone to have a go ... subject to obvious levels of quality

That's the answer right there. Why should RSC, a small UK company, be expected to produce routes for countries they have no knowledge of and no data to research? It could actually be harmful to their reputation to even try, as famously flopped US routes are testimony too. In MSTS, Microsoft weren't banging out UK routes, that was down to private companies here in the UK to pick up the baton and start up businesses. If there is sufficient demand for a Siberian mining route or a Latvian branch line then entrepreneurs in those countries should seize the opportunity like ours did back in the days of MSTS.

Its best possible to build routes for other countries without living there and without knowing all the details .
Take the excelent Trainz Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Project.
http://darjeelingtrainz.com/
Thats completely done on the basis of photo's taken by one enthousiast in India .The project was started by guys living in the US.
But its true that everything looks different there ; they have made more than 2000 custom objects.
Such a project is possible in RW, but it would certainly help if the freeware making community was larger.
You dont need to live in India ; if i remember correct the guy that made the most object was living in England.