RW3 keeps freezing

Springer6 · Post by **Springer6** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 pm

Hello,

I hope that someone can help.

I have used RW2 for a long time without major problems and have continued to use an old "quaranteened copy" as RW3 did not seem to run as well . The RW2 sim did sometimes freeze momentarily, ( especially on WCMLN ) but usually cleared and ran normally after a few seconds.

I recently purchased "Woodhead" and found it would not run at all on RW2. Therfore I have started to run it on RW3.

The trouble is that sometimes scenarios won't load and I get the "something bad has happened to your programme" which requires the task manager to clear the game to get rid of it.

Other times the sim and scenarios will load and run ok and then for no apparent reason will freeze solid and will not recover. Again the Task Manager is required to clear the programme.

I have taken on board the advice in these forums from "Kromaatkse" and this has improved the performance and look of RW3 , but I am still getting the unexplained permanent freezes. I even try saving the scenario progress constantly so that I can reload the scenario at latest progress after a freeze, but the problem is becoming a ridiculous annoyance.

I can be running frame rates of 30fps or more when the "freeze " occurs.

My set up is not the best , but should be adequate for basic settings.

Intel I3 2.91Ghz processor, Windows 7-- 32 bit, 3 GB Ram ( I have thought about more ,but 32 bit Windows 7 can only use 3GB and RW3 is still a 32 bit programme ? ), Geforce G210 graphics card.
I have tried running everything on low , off and unchecked and get good frame rates , but poor visuals. However even on the absolutely lowest settings I still get the permanent freezes.

My current RW3 settings are TSX off ( I get 17-18 fps with TSX on in Kromaatske's "Autumn Leaves " test ), Settings/Basic setting =Low with 30fps lock.

My in game Graphics settings are, everything on "Medium" except Shader Quality =High, Scenery detail=10, Low Detail Shadows=off, Adaptive Bloom=off, Depth of field=off.

As per Kromaatke's advice many scenery objects ( including some overhead gantries) do not show up unless Shader Quality and Scenery detail are near max.

I have tried to limit the number of background programmes running that may grab memory.

I have tried verifying my cache and re-downloading RW3 and the routes and scenarios.

However I am still gettting the unexplained and permanent freezes.

Any helpfull suggestions would be greatly appreciated

peterfhayes · Post by **peterfhayes** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:16 am

Springer
Are you using the /3GB switch in windows 7 to increase the amount of VAS available to TS2012
This post helps: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps ... ID=9240697
You will see the commandl line states the following value: "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072" This is the maxium 3GB aka /3G switch
I would recommend that you start at 2560 and increase it by 128 kb steps until you no longer get the SBHH errors
(Explanation: In your set up a 32-bit OS running a 32-bit program you get 4GB of Virtual (Process) Address space to run TS2012 in , but the system (kernel) grabs 2GB and your video card grabs up to the amount of VRAM (up to 512MB in your case) it has, thus leaving less than 2GB of VAS for TS2012 to run in. This can lead to SBHH and other errors including freezing, etc. [This has nothing to do with Physical RAM installed or the paging file.] The /3G switch above increases the VAS value up to 3GB (minus video card RAM for TS2012 to run in). Note this affects every program running under windows 7 so you may or may not have issues running some software/drivers.
Your video card is quite weak so you may to reduce the settings in TS2012 quite markedly.
My recommendation: Upgrade to 64-bit Win 7 (you get the whole 4GB VAS irrespective), look at a better card video something like a GTX550TI, and install 4GB of matched RAM (only in the 64-bit OS)
Regards
PeterH

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:17 am

As noted previously re Woodhead, despite RW being a 32 bit programme it seems the workround with most success for those who can't run it is upgrade to 64 bit with a minimum of 4Gb of RAM.

Springer6 · Post by **Springer6** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:19 pm

Peterfhayes & bigvern,

Thanks very much for the replies.

I have actually now installed 8Gb of RAM ( 2 matched 4GB units ) in anticipation of using the "3GB switch" and also eventually upgrading to 64 -bit.

Going to 64-bit is a bit daunting as it requires a clean install ( loss of data and programmes{some older progs will probably not work} ) or trying to install a dual booting arrangement ?

I have done the 3GB switch thing and my CPU usage and RAM usage in for example OX/Padd Autumn Leaves has fallen slightly from 30% & 40% to 27%&36% , but frame rates are still around 23-25.

However with Woodhead I still get the dreaded permanent Freeze with "Failure to install Vertex Buffer" or "Something Bad has Happened".

Peter ,
Would you recommend upgrading my graphics card to say a GTX550Ti with it's 1024Mb VRAM (rather than the G210 512Mb) before going to 64 bit? Would a larger graphics card make matters worse in 32 bit by grabbing more of my limited available RAM ?

I assume that TS2012/Woodhead problem ( from what has been said and from observation) is primarily a RAM issue...I noticed that the RAM usage was edging in to high 80's at the time of some freezes.

Thanks again for the advice

peterfhayes · Post by **peterfhayes** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:10 pm

Springer6
Yes the larger VRAM in the 550TI in a 32bit OS could steal more of the VAS, so best to wait to upgrade to a 64-bit OS before changing the card!
The major problem with TS2012 is NOT a RAM issue, but a VAS issue so checking how much RAM is being used doesn't really tell you what is going on. If you were using "all of your installed RAM" the PC would first slow down dramatically [not necessarily freeze] (as you are now using the paging file) and Windows (not TS2012) would usually display a message about "Your computer has run out of available memory" and/or "turning down settings" or similar. Eventually you would experience the dreaded BSOD with some sort of exception error. If you deplete the VAS or it becommes to fragmented you get an OOM error (Out of Memory and this just affects TS2012), which in TS2012 is often the dreaded SBHH error. It doesn't matter if you have 1GB or a 192GB of Physical RAM installed in a 32-bit app (Large Address Aware Flag set) in a 64-bit OS you will only get a maximum of 4GB VAS, but no penalty from high VRAM cards. As I explained above this is slightly different (less) in a 32-bit OS.

Hope this helps
Regards
pH

SquidvT · Post by **SquidvT** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:04 pm

Springer, I too had similar problems to you, esp with WCMLN. I have an Ok computer, and it was (and is) well optimised. The 3 gig switch didnt work for me, (Due mainly to issues with VAS).

So I bit the bullet and installed win 7 64 bit.

Since then I have never looked back. RW runs very well, no more SBHH errors (well only a very few) and I wish I had done it sooner.

The install of the OS isnt as harsh as it seems, and I havent yet encountered a program that will no longer run under win 7.

I would certainly go for that GPU upgrade (check you have the power supply to run it) and also the Win 7 64 bit.

Springer6 · Post by **Springer6** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:57 pm

Hello,

Thanks to all and especially peterfhayes, who explained the VAS issue ( I sort of understand it now). I agree SquidvT that I will probably have to "bite the bullet" and install 64-bit ( on a dual boot if possible ).

However , I have had some success now with the 3 gig switch.

For the benefit of others, who like me may not be that IT literate, here's what I ( eventually) did.

Installed 8 gb of RAM ( 4 gig is is all that is required {or that can be used on 32 bit} )

Then in Win 7 You have to enter the command window as an administrator. I did it through a prog named " Windows Command Processor", but you can do it from the control panel apparently.

The command is "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072"

Then after entering the command you have to press "enter" before restarting the PC ( I know it's obvious, but I had to work that out! )

I started as recommended with 2560 as the value, but crept up ( 128 at a time) to the full 3072. I have not yet found any detrimental effects on other applications.

Finally, I installed a " Local Area Connection" icon on my desktop. By right clicking this I can easily disconnect from the internet whilst on RW3. This allows me to also disable my firewall, which seems to be RAM hungry.

TS2012, with Woodhead and WCMLN, is now running as well, if not better than anything did on RW2. I have tested all the default and many add on scenarios on these routes.

The "failures to load", "loading with missing textures", "Something Bad Has Happened" and "Failed to Load Vertex Buffer" freezes have now completely disappeared.
However there is still a very occasional "stutter" when frame rates drop to around 14-15, but they soon recover to run usually at around 25-28 fps.

I also still sometimes lose engine sounds and get a "strangled" whistle sound sometimes when a loco has been running at high speed ? A VAS issue perhaps ? .

My settings are :- TSX off, Basic setting =Low--- Graphic Settings = All "High" except Particle Density and Passenger Detail = Medium, Scenery Detail= 10 (any lower and some gantries do not show up on Woodhead)

Shadows = "Off" ( I use WCMLN, Woodhead, Settle/ Carlisle & Port Road mainly and here in the North West UK we don't actually get many shadows

)

Low Detail Shadows, Procedural Flora, Adaptive Bloom & Depth of Field all unchecked ( Off).

As I said, the next move will be to go to 64 bit and upgrade the Graphics card and possibly processor to an I5 or I7 ( especially if I want to run TSX), but the 3 gig switch and adjusting the settings has given me a very usable and enjoyable Woodhead route.

Thanks again to all and I hope this post can help others with similar problems

peterfhayes · Post by **peterfhayes** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:25 pm

Springer
Now that you have installed 8GB RAM in your 32-bit OS why don't you have a look at "Fancy Cache' (free) which allows 32-bit OS's to utilise more than 4GB RAM and it may help with load times.http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/fancy-cache/ You might as well put that extra RAM to some use??

Regards
pH

secludedsfx · Post by **secludedsfx** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:50 am

peterfhayes wrote:Springer
Now that you have installed 8GB RAM in your 32-bit OS why don't you have a look at "Fancy Cache' (free) which allows 32-bit OS's to utilise more than 4GB RAM and it may help with load times.http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/fancy-cache/ You might as well put that extra RAM to some use??
Regards
pH

Fancycache doesn't allow 32 bit OS's to use more ram because no matter what, the 32 bit OS will never recognise the ram.

malcolmfhill · Post by **malcolmfhill** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:30 am

Having purchased the Woodhead line approx 10 days ago, I have been tearing my hair out trying to get it to work, load, edit or indeed anything! I run RW3 but in legacy mode as I have a 5 yr old 32-bit Windows XP system. All my other routes work really well with my GT430 and I have just purchased the JT Scottish Main Line. My real beef is this - why didn't RSC issue a warning that the Woodhead line probably wouldn't work on older PCs? OR Can they issue a simplified version (maybe no catenary etc) for lesser systems like mine?
If you have a 32 bit system - be warned!

PS I'm also using 6 GB Ram

Springer6 · Post by **Springer6** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:51 am

Malcolm,

I too was "tearing my hair out" with Woodhead. Have you tried using the 3 gig switch with your 6 gig of RAM ? It made all the difference with my system when applied properly ( see my post).

Getting rid of the wires should make Woodhead run better in any event.

I have done this on a copy of WCMLN and it improved performance considerably as well as giving me an LMS era route ( after I had added closed stations, signal boxes, semaphores etc).

I intend to do this on a copy of the Woodhead route and remove the new electric tunnel etc.

To remove the "wires" you need "RW Tools". There is a tutorial pdf file on how to do this, but I no longer have the link. The file is "Removing_Electrification.pdf".

It takes some time to do , but is fairly easy to follow and is automatic so not hard work. The only thing to watch is that you do not remove any signal gantries with the electrification gantries and of course you need to take out the transformers, sub-stations etc. as well.

I understand that 3 gig switch will work with XP see "http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2 ... vista.html" , but it's more complicated to do than on Win 7.

Keep trying with Woodhead it's a fantastic route, you should be able to make it run ok. As I said mine, from being vitually unusable now runs better than RW2 did with WCMLN.

Good luck

Atomic Systems