Atomic Systems

"In RW3 if all Freeware is swamped out of the picture I think the Sim will die. RSC beware!"

For the users outside England ( i am from Belgium ) its more the question : " when will it come to life ? "

As earlier said the payware culture doesnt help . I can understand those that think " why making something for free when al the others sell their stuff ? "
Thats a big disadvantage in comparition with the other sims , and even the fact that it is , to a certain degree, needed for RSC , doesnt make it more advantageous.

Than the documentation for the newbies who want to make assets; ok , a lot can be found somewhere , but where ? Its everywhere and nowhere.
What is missing is all those clear , understandable tutorials written for MSTS and Trainz .
Long ago i started building for Trainz with a tutorial " a simple loco " .
I have still to see the first " a simple loco " tutorial for RW.

erikkr wrote:I can understand those that think " why making something for free when al the others sell their stuff ? "

I don't understand that at all. I can understand someone saying "I'm not going to give this away to anyone else for free" - and then they have all the hassle of marketing, deadlines, post-sales support, billing, and doing their taxes - but making it? if you're not commercial from the start, surely you make something because you want to?

There is "a simple loco" in the dev docs. It's been there for years.

Than the documentation for the newbies who want to make assets; ok , a lot can be found somewhere , but where ? Its everywhere and nowhere.

This is a very good observation and quite correct.

Sometimes I am at a loss as to where to point people for specific information although I know that UKTS and many other places have an answer for everything provided you know what the answer is that you are looking for.

It became clear quite a long time ago when the RailWorks WIKI failed to be updated, that RS.com are not putting any priority into providing creator information other than the extremely helpful personal notes and guidance given by Derek, particularly regarding shaders and other new features of TS2012. It is very much a do-it-yourself approach and whilst the average player can use the built in tools to produce enjoyable routes for themselves, anything more that that does require a considerable amount of experience and knowledge.

Fortunately I am a good note taker and I document everything I do for the first time so that it is easier the next time around. Sometimes I look at my notes and wonder how I worked out how to do something as there is no logic to some things and I know that answers have often been supplied by odd remarks of the forums or discovering an important tip somewhere.

RS.com have no obvious formal program to encourage content creators and it also now seems possible that they are using creation tools that are not being made available to the general public.

This is not a criticism of RS.com but just a reminder that whilst they will not go out of their way to upset anyone, they are the inter-city express that everyone else stops for and us commuter passenger and freight services are free to do what we like on the branch and local lines as long as we bear this in mind.

Hi,
Just to point out that Settle to Carlisle is being built with the live version with all the tools that everyone else has. (except career mode scenarios)
Of course in the future we may have tools that we develop for ourselves, but right now I use what everyone else uses.

regards

Derek

RSderek wrote:Hi,
Just to point out that Settle to Carlisle is being built with the live version with all the tools that everyone else has. (except career mode scenarios)
Of course in the future we may have tools that we develop for ourselves, but right now I use what everyone else uses.

regards

Derek

Ahhh, but you forgot to mention two 'tools' no doubt on your desk, the tea and biscuits! Is it hob-nobs and English Breakfast?

Matt

I've got to admit, on my latest route building efforts I have enjoyed myself. I know what compromises I have made in order to have achieve what I have achieved.
The next step is to push forward with scenery at the standard of payware level. That is not a high mark, it is a low mark. I doubt I will be lined up with skilled 3d developers at this stage, but after the initial foolsgold rush, who knows what is around the corner/bend.

paulz6 wrote:The next step is to push forward with scenery at the standard of payware level. That is not a high mark, it is a low mark.

I personally think that at this stage of the game it is a meaningless mark. There is such a variance of style and quality in both payware and freeware that to define something by whether you have to spend money to acquire it is no definition at all. A "payware quality route" could be something as good as this: http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee5 ... HD_008.jpg

Or something as good as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Co5qzp-VA

Or something like this:



Or this:

http://www.dieseldo.scattybat.co.uk/rs/ts2012_a023.jpg

And of course none of those images tell the whole story of their respective routes. The only viable bar to set, I think, from a route builders' perspective, is the bar of "am I happy that what I have done has been done to the best of my ability given the resources available to me?"

Where is the 'like' button. I appreciate viewing the world through misty eyes!

Absolutely, quality (or perhaps by that we mean attention to detail) has nothing to do with whether you pay for it or not. If anything, payware has a time and budget constraint and freeware does not. I would say the standards and detail of most freeware is better than most payware, if viewed overall. And for every superb payware route I'll show you 2 freeware routes of equivalent standards.

There seems to be a view in this thread that it's better because you've paid for it, ignoring the actual content of the route.

B

erikkr wrote:"In RW3 if all Freeware is swamped out of the picture I think the Sim will die. RSC beware!"

For the users outside England ( i am from Belgium ) its more the question : " when will it come to life ? "

As earlier said the payware culture doesnt help . I can understand those that think " why making something for free when al the others sell their stuff ? "
Thats a big disadvantage in comparition with the other sims , and even the fact that it is , to a certain degree, needed for RSC , doesnt make it more advantageous.

Than the documentation for the newbies who want to make assets; ok , a lot can be found somewhere , but where ? Its everywhere and nowhere.
What is missing is all those clear , understandable tutorials written for MSTS and Trainz .
Long ago i started building for Trainz with a tutorial " a simple loco " .
I have still to see the first " a simple loco " tutorial for RW.

Aha, a countryman
I live in Hasselt and I am 62....

Money is for me not a breakpoint.
But I speak also about it

I know and have Trainz and MSTS.
The graphical display is not good, I don't like it.
And I found it very difficult and complicated to draw out a route.
That is why I did leave it and I'll start it never more.
I do not even bother to look up more, to understand everything, I do not spend one cent more.
End of that dicussion
(imho and for me he)
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My first good tutorial to create routes in RW was from a Frenchman.
I do still have does 2 pdf files.
Everything is explained step by step and in detail.
That's the way it should be.

My point I try to make is that what we need must be supplied by the developer, the people of RW.
This forum here is the best there is.
But this forum is not the developer of RW.

To help each other is valuable and admirable.
To create free content is that too.
And it is normal that here and there the demand for money rears...
Precisely because of the hard work that we put into it.
But as I did say: I don't care.
I will choose what I give away and what not
Problem solved.

RailWorks Documentation > Developer Wiki > http://www.railsimdownloads.com/wiki/tiki-index.php
It's good but far from complete.
Where do we find there :" How to create a route"
(If I am wrong, please don't kill me)
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About freeware content and free routes.
We need some rules, sorry but it seems to be necessary.