Atomic Systems

I would say that some of the most coveted routes available for RW have been freeware. Isle of Wight, South Devon Banks, Leafy Suburbs, (add your own personal favourites here) etc...etc...

Payware products will always get the most coverage and forum comment due to their very nature, they are picked for their main selling point, the name and history, Woodhead, Settle - Carlisle, WCML, ECML, NEC, Donner Pass, ..........the list goes on. People's memories are stirred by the very mention of these iconic routes and because we are human, we like to share our nostalgia.

It doesn't mean that the freeware side of the hobby is being ignored, as Darren mentioned before, there are a few routes that most don't even know are being built.

I would admit though, over in the route building thread, most of those posting are fellow route builders giving each other encouragement and advice. It would be nice to think some of those who got nostalgic in thier droves about going over Beattock on the WCML north would head on over and get nostalgic about going over Shap in a Coronation Class on Ben's new project. A bit of encouragement never hurt anyone.

Personally, I think just trains are out of the equation now. We need more than what is offered, and I feel we get little extra. It is a decision based on fiction that is based not what the consumer wants.

paulz6 wrote:Personally, I think just trains are out of the equation now. We need more than what is offered, and I feel we get little extra. It is a decision based on fiction that is based not what the consumer wants.

Have you put this reply in the correct thread, what are you referring to here?

bigvern wrote:This is just a subject thrown out for hopefully reasoned debate...

As I once again do battle with Google Earth and the vagaries of the RW Route Editor, to do an obscure branch line "from nowhere to nowhere", I do have to seriously question what the role of freeware routes will play in the future of RW. Hot on the heels of Woodhead comes the news about S&C from RSC, it looks as if Northern Lights and the Bristol routes will be with us fairly soon from JT and we have Stage One of the southern ECML from Creative Rail. Add to that the possibility of another as yet unannounced UK route from RSC, what also appears to be a new payware route from Germany and it seems the market is being filled almost to the point of saturation already. What is the point of spending 2 or 3 months on a 15 mile branch line which is probably not going to compete in terms of end quality anyway?

Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic but is it time to pack away the tools, sit back and make do with what the professionals have created?

Speaking of quality?
Do you know Sad27?
And his first route he did make?

bigvern wrote:Some excellent and constructive discussion.

Fair to say from the views so far, that there is most definitely a demand for freeware routes amongst the big payware projects. Hopefully not only myself but other route builders thinking along similar lines can take comfort that we're not wasting our time.

At times I did think I was wasting my time with the Bacup Branch.


Regards


John

The one thing I would add to the discussion and perhaps another factor in my deliberations, is the creation of additional scenarios once the route is in the public domain. It's fair to say that Mike (Whiteley) and myself sweated blood over getting the Blackpool Tramway out but since its release in August last year, there's two additional scenarios been uploaded for what should be a flagship route. I can't see any for the Lithgow/Zigzag route and there's a couple for the slightly older Vale of Rheidol, which you would have thought might have generated a bit more interest.

Perhaps it is incumbent on the route author to support his own creations to some extent but the usual process of getting a route to a release stage, even a personal well loved project, tends to leave you fed up to the back teeth of the sight of the thing at which point it is nice to have others come in and apply their imagination to the little world you've created. Maybe it's also a reflection that the secenario editor is still not an easy beast to work with, compared to MSTS, which puts people off producing scenarios.

So as I work through my list of half started/semi-abandoned/that would make a good route ideas to try and bring something new to the table for 2012, all of you who support the freeware route authors please also think about putting something back in with a scenario or two. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just end to end with a favourite loco if you like but it is a tangible way of saying thank you and encouraging us to carry on.

partyspiritz wrote: At times I did think I was wasting my time with the Bacup Branch.


Regards


John

Dear John,
Noboby dan take away your hobby.
But there is only honor and glory for a few.

bigvern wrote:The one thing I would add to the discussion and perhaps another factor in my deliberations, is the creation of additional scenarios once the route is in the public domain. It's fair to say that Mike (Whiteley) and myself sweated blood over getting the Blackpool Tramway out but since its release in August last year, there's two additional scenarios been uploaded for what should be a flagship route. I can't see any for the Lithgow/Zigzag route and there's a couple for the slightly older Vale of Rheidol, which you would have thought might have generated a bit more interest.

Perhaps it is incumbent on the route author to support his own creations to some extent but the usual process of getting a route to a release stage, even a personal well loved project, tends to leave you fed up to the back teeth of the sight of the thing at which point it is nice to have others come in and apply their imagination to the little world you've created. Maybe it's also a reflection that the secenario editor is still not an easy beast to work with, compared to MSTS, which puts people off producing scenarios.

So as I work through my list of half started/semi-abandoned/that would make a good route ideas to try and bring something new to the table for 2012, all of you who support the freeware route authors please also think about putting something back in with a scenario or two. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just end to end with a favourite loco if you like but it is a tangible way of saying thank you and encouraging us to carry on.

Hi Vern,

Maybe Jim would consider organising a UKTS Freeware Scenario pack for some of the Freeware routes that lack scenarios if you think that would help generate interest for freeware routes, just an idea.

with regards,

Dave.

davejc64 wrote:Maybe Jim would consider organising a UKTS Freeware Scenario pack for some of the Freeware routes that lack scenarios if you think that would help generate interest for freeware routes, just an idea.

Always open to ideas and this came up yesterday I think in the WCML North Scenario Pack thread when I suggested something similar:
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1529294

In short the answer is "Yes"

nobkins wrote:

davejc64 wrote:Maybe Jim would consider organising a UKTS Freeware Scenario pack for some of the Freeware routes that lack scenarios if you think that would help generate interest for freeware routes, just an idea.

Always open to ideas and this came up yesterday I think in the WCML North Scenario Pack thread when I suggested something similar:
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1529294

In short the answer is "Yes"

Wow, thanks Jim for the speedy reply!

I would certainly be up for a spot of beta testing for any scenarios.

If there was a freeware pack of scenarios for the latest freeware route Skipton, Settle and Carlisle, then that would make it an unbelievable package.

Sorry to diverge this thread, just my enthusiasm.

keith

Hi Keith and yes that would be good. My only concern with doing one for the freeware S&C right now is that I understand it is still being extended and improved etc. (I could be wrong). This could result in a scenario pack not working at a later date if the track got changed in some way. Some track changes break scenarios, some don't.

Been incommunicado and only just seen the thread. I made CKPR because I wanted to - I still fall off my chair when I see it's had 2k downloads despite it being a PITA to install second only to the fabulous Wales and Borders.

The good news is that ive nearly got all required permissions and Jim has kindly agreed to make an installer.

Whilst there are some detailed payware routes, I don't think they will ever touch freeware for what's possible as there isn't the time. Even my favourite payware routes I wouldn't describe as particularly detailed and to me the phrase "payware quality" is very much a misnomer.

Just my opinion, but if you're building a freeware route for anything other than your own enjoyment then you'll either be disappointed or you won't finish it.

Good thread Vern.

B

Good morning everyone
As the creator of Candlewick which has received more than 6300 downloads thank you all
I would have liked to have been in a position to have been able to create scenarios for it
Sadly and here is the irony I am unable to use my route because of the limitations of my computer running TS2012
At the moment I am not in a financial position to splash out on an upgrade
In my opinion there is a place for both Freeware and Payware routes they can live side by side
Afterall in light of the recent news about interest rate rises affecting those with mortgages these together with job insecurity could conspire to limit customers spending power
Kind regards Stephen

stephenholmes wrote:Good morning everyone
As the creator of Candlewick which has received more than 6300 downloads thank you all
I would have liked to have been in a position to have been able to create scenarios for it
Sadly and here is the irony I am unable to use my route because of the limitations of my computer running TS2012
At the moment I am not in a financial position to splash out on an upgrade
In my opinion there is a place for both Freeware and Payware routes they can live side by side
Afterall in light of the recent news about interest rate rises affecting those with mortgages these together with job insecurity could conspire to limit customers spending power
Kind regards Stephen

Stephen,

What type of cpu socket do you have
and what type of cpu?
Perhaps I could help