Island of Sodor

[Rockdoc2174]

With a world-wide brand, like TTTE, the rights-holders have to be on their guard because allowing anyone to make money from their property without permission can invalidate the copyright altogether and lose them a lot of cash - which is, literally and metaphorically, the bottom line. Terry Pratchett usually allows not-for-profit efforts relating to the Discworld but only if he's been asked first. He wants to know the why and the wherefore before he gives his permission because if the thing is good, bad or worse it reflects on him, whether or not he's had anything to do with it. He's been known to turn down stuff from fans and commercial proposals that he didn't think were good enough. If you've produced gold, why let someone adulterate it with brass?

As I see it with a sim, even if the original work is top-class and approved by the powers-that-be, there's always a risk that someone will take that work and, for the sake of argument, produce a scenario that runs counter to the norms of the product. If I were lucky enough to own rights to such a product I'd be very chary about giving permission simply because t would be so difficult to keep a grip on what was being done.

Keith

[railermad]

Regarding UKBL they did have contact from HIT, but that was not the sole cause of removal, it was also because of a very pressurising fanbase. They kept reskinning the original creators work without his permission so he opted for his work to be removed.

Oh the irony. The model made without permission was reskinned without permission.

Yes, quite right, rather ironic indeed, the thing is half of the people who make anything in Trainz from the Thomas brand do go around acting as though they own it, whilst in a sense the model is copyrighted to them, it isn't. You should see some of the uproar there is when they find someone's done a reskin of a model they've made, it's rather entertaining That and those that remake the TV show in Trainz, the way they react when someone 'steals' their videos, it's just so petty.

Actually I was wondering something though, isn't putting company logos on locos without the company's permission a similair type of copyright breach, or am I mistaken?

But yes it's a shame we can't have a Thomas at least, would be useful for my Midland Railway Centre project, would provide something different for the scenarios, a Day out with Thomas event. Would be even more handy considering 47327 is currently staying in the blue livery, minus face. Would add a bit more diversity.

[rivimey]

Actually I was wondering something though, isn't putting company logos on locos without the company's permission a similair type of copyright breach, or am I mistaken? .

As I understand it, it may not be copyright breach because it may be a trademark breach. I'm not sure where the line is crossed. Obviously someone created the logo and in theory that is subject to copyright, although the copyright on a logo will certainly have to be assigned to the company. However, it is also probably a trademark - depending on whether it's been registered - and that may take precedence.

Either way it's not "fair game". It is not however easy to say whether the use on models of this sort is necessarily a breach, as the model represents the original, and you are not trying to pass-off. I think you would need to talk to a trademark lawyer to get a definitive answer on this one.

Ruth

[choccy]

I do believe Mattel have recently acquired the copyright and the products are marketed under the brand name of Fischer-Price.So be careful what you say about the F4 key in TS2012/RW3.

http://www.fisher-price.com/fp.aspx?st= ... =character

Around the time of the Rev.W.Awdry's death (1997) the copyright was sold and I believe the Awdry family themselves have had problems relating to its control and management. It's all rather sad how rigorously copyright control has been carried out and the abundant list of 'characters' has made the list no longer memorable. Such a shame as Rev.W.Awdry wrote the original stories as bedtime stories for his children. We are now a long way from Thomas, Edward, Henry, Gordon and James and what was intended at their initiation.

Mark

[styckx]

Grand idea!

Make the route, except spell the name backwards! We'll call it Island Of Rodos! Then make the route the opposite! Left turns would be right, right turns left etc! Then, instead of making trains and scenery look cartoony and fake, we can make cartoon trains and scenery look like real train and scenery! Being as there is no cartoon trains and scenery available we'll just have to pretend and use real trains and scenery. This way we can get around copyright and trademark laws!

No need to thank me for my brilliance.. I already know..

[bdy26]

I think you would need to talk to a trademark lawyer to get a definitive answer on this one.

Ruth

Somebody called?

My, there has been a lot of IP talk on the forums this year. Ruth has hit the nail on the head in that logos are more of a trademark issue.

If I take a picture in my personal capacity of a BR double arrow, the image is my copyright as the photographer. If I use it on a reskin I have permission to use the model of, there is probably no actionable IP claim provided I don't charge for it.

Putting a logo on something and selling it could give rise to a breach of trademark as you are exploiting the get up of the trademark owner to make money - just the same as selling fake T-Shirts outside a gig. Hence the practice of selling unbranded payware and giving logo reskins away for free. This probably gets you round a claim as it would be a difficult one to demonstrate a loss or harm to a trademark that would be sufficient to grant an injunction.

I expect most TOCs would not be too concerned provided it was decent quality. The company I work for has branded rail based plant - if it landed on my desk that someone had produced a model using our logos we'd probably be okay provided Marketing confirmed the font and colour were correct and want to use it ourselves!

The reality is that if someone wants to start threatening legal action then they can cause a lot of stress and frighten people and in many ways the easiest thing to do is back away. I can sue Ruth for owning a pair of green trousers - provided I pay the hefty court fee and fill in the forms they will get stamped and issued.

Personally I take great delight in bringing down vexatious threats of litigation, but it's easy to take that view when it's your day job.

B

[faedundee2]

I think you would need to talk to a trademark lawyer to get a definitive answer on this one.

Ruth

Somebody called?

My, there has been a lot of IP talk on the forums this year. Ruth has hit the nail on the head in that logos are more of a trademark issue.

If I take a picture in my personal capacity of a BR double arrow, the image is my copyright as the photographer. If I use it on a reskin I have permission to use the model of, there is probably no actionable IP claim provided I don't charge for it.

Putting a logo on something and selling it could give rise to a breach of trademark as you are exploiting the get up of the trademark owner to make money - just the same as selling fake T-Shirts outside a gig. Hence the practice of selling unbranded payware and giving logo reskins away for free. This probably gets you round a claim as it would be a difficult one to demonstrate a loss or harm to a trademark that would be sufficient to grant an injunction.

I expect most TOCs would not be too concerned provided it was decent quality. The company I work for has branded rail based plant - if it landed on my desk that someone had produced a model using our logos we'd probably be okay provided Marketing confirmed the font and colour were correct and want to use it ourselves!

The reality is that if someone wants to start threatening legal action then they can cause a lot of stress and frighten people and in many ways the easiest thing to do is back away. I can sue Ruth for owning a pair of green trousers - provided I pay the hefty court fee and fill in the forms they will get stamped and issued.

Personally I take great delight in bringing down vexatious threats of litigation, but it's easy to take that view when it's your day job.

B

Don't try and paint a real loco into Intercity Swallow.... That will open A) a massive can of worms and B) a rather complicated legal case over copyright...

[gptech]

.....Don't try and paint a real loco into Intercity Swallow.... That will open A) a massive can of worms......

Not to mention a massive can of paint......

[FoggyMorning]

I think you would need to talk to a trademark lawyer to get a definitive answer on this one.

Ruth

Somebody called?

My, there has been a lot of IP talk on the forums this year. Ruth has hit the nail on the head in that logos are more of a trademark issue.

If I take a picture in my personal capacity of a BR double arrow, the image is my copyright as the photographer. If I use it on a reskin I have permission to use the model of, there is probably no actionable IP claim provided I don't charge for it.

Putting a logo on something and selling it could give rise to a breach of trademark as you are exploiting the get up of the trademark owner to make money - just the same as selling fake T-Shirts outside a gig. Hence the practice of selling unbranded payware and giving logo reskins away for free. This probably gets you round a claim as it would be a difficult one to demonstrate a loss or harm to a trademark that would be sufficient to grant an injunction.

I expect most TOCs would not be too concerned provided it was decent quality. The company I work for has branded rail based plant - if it landed on my desk that someone had produced a model using our logos we'd probably be okay provided Marketing confirmed the font and colour were correct and want to use it ourselves!

The reality is that if someone wants to start threatening legal action then they can cause a lot of stress and frighten people and in many ways the easiest thing to do is back away. I can sue Ruth for owning a pair of green trousers - provided I pay the hefty court fee and fill in the forms they will get stamped and issued.

Personally I take great delight in bringing down vexatious threats of litigation, but it's easy to take that view when it's your day job.

B

Don't try and paint a real loco into Intercity Swallow.... That will open A) a massive can of worms and B) a rather complicated legal case over copyright...

And probably get you prosecuted for trespassing on the railway and criminal damage to boot!