Atomic Systems

Firstly, I must commend Oovee on coming out telling us all this. They didn't have to - even if it was just to shut people up.

Also, I thought Oovee and Thomson Interactive had pretty much joined and that they would work together for future addons and maybe have one or two of there own. Hopefully, Thomson might just take up all of Oovees left at the sidelines work and then try and complete them with Oovees help. That way, Oovee are still providing the addons they announced 2 or 3 years back.

I do hope, Oovee have all the success with SpinTires but I feel that it is a once you've played it, you've done everything. Unless there will be tons of different additions to it. I grabbed there BETA for it, and I played it once just to see how it was, the controls didn't seem too good and it was boring. Heck, they could try and make it a 16+ and throw some animals etc. in so you can run them over. Fair enough that isn't what they want but some people think. Oh, this game lets you kill people lets buy it.

If they do release SpinTires on Steam then I would love to know the price point as personally I would price it as an Indie Game at about £6.99 or less, and then for the first week or so on sale give it a pretty 10% off just for the sake of a discount!

I also wish them luck with their Flight Simulator addons and I will certainly be purchasing them to add to my already vast collection!

Thanks

An Oovee DC10 with correct sounds and flight model would be worth reinstalling FSX for!

I have enjoyed the Oovee items I purchased as much if not more than many others and they deserve kudos for (almost) overcoming the limitations of the DMU hydraulic transmission model in RW. I'm probably in a minority but I'm not that fussed about raindrops on kittens, sorry windows, I guess you do notice if coming from a traction unit which has it, but not the end of the world.

Most of us around the train sim scene have had to curtail and modify our ambitions in the light of reality and other external pressures. Let's hope Oovee's period of consolidation and diversification into other areas leads to a stronger company in future.

Unfortunately we have two topics under one thread title, so apologies for veering off for a moment

DavidVI wrote:

gptech wrote:

Has anybody considered those many members with lower powered PCs?.... maybe there's the group of users who are happy not to have frame rate killing headlights on every item of motive power.

Not sure why a Train sims development should be held back because of people with lower spec PC's. Surely those people can just turn TSX off, or turn down settings.

Correctly quoted, but maybe not 100% in context. My comment was in answer to jimmyshands statement about people being glad that developers aren't adding lights etc. Not adding those 'bells and whistles' features doesn't make the technology/code/means to do so go away, so is in no way detrimental to the games development. In fact. the reverse could be said; the time and resources spent adding them could be better used in advancing the game, or dealing with long standing issues.

pjt1974 wrote:There was an issue caused by RW2 becoming TS2012 and the whole game took a step forward including TSX off mode. Low end users were stripped of using thier old settings and had to lower thier quality of gaming. The whole point of the problem was it was taken out of thier hands, there wasn't a choice not to upgrade and keep a program they were happy running at thier settings on thier 'older' machines.

Trainsim development should not be held back because of people with low end machines but there should be some middle ground so they can continue to enjoy the hobby without having to resort to reinstalling RailSimulator.

Not entirely 100% correct, we all had the option and time to back up our RW2 installation, and/or create a separate instance which would be taken permanantly off line.
The last time I posted that TSX off/legacy mode was the biggest problem for low end machines I was politely but firmly chastised for daring to advocate leaving those with weaker PCs behind, so I won't mention it this time...
To me, the way forward is not to have TSX on or off, but to have TSX optimised as much as possible to run on lower end kit and to have more toggleable options; just as we can change the settings for shadows why not a choice for headlights?
Consider that as it stands, any new feature/DLC has to be checked to ensure it doesn't 'break' TSX off mode, so wouldn't it be simpler to just develop for one engine?
Of course, it will mean that there'll still be some who's machines still don't 'cut it', but as you both have pointed out, the games development can't be held back by those unfortunate enough to have such machines. Perhaps we three should be the first to donate to a 'Get partyspirits a new PC fund' ?
(As an aside to that, perhaps we as a community could look at a register of kit that folk have replaced when upgrading, said kit being passed on to someone who's in desperate need but doesn't have the means? )

Personally, I want the game advancing, I want lights and raindrops fitting to all stock, I want the core developing to make efficient use of todays breed of PCs, I want the physics to be as accurate as possible, I want signalling for bi-directional track on a single track route to work right....etc but I accept it isn't going to happen tomorrow.

To wrap up, and steer back towards the threads topic, Oovee's statement doesn't say nor imply that there's nothing going to happen for RW, just that they're having a holiday from making new stuff, sorting out older issues and working on other games platforms for a while. The stuff they've produced is still available, support is still provided.

Although I commend Oovee on their statement, I feel that I must point out that Oovee's support for its Class 156 was already falling short before the TS2012 update. In Section 11 of the product manual, they included the following...

Repaint Pack
A free repaint pack will be available on our website (http://www.oovee.co.uk) sometime between 15/04/2011 and 28/04/2011. It will consist of blank repainting textures.

Destination Pack
A free destination pack will be available on our website (http://www.oovee.co.uk) sometime between 15/04/2011 and 28/04/2011. It will consist of blank repainting textures for custom destinations for the destination display.

Class 156 (ScotRail Bonus Pack)
A ScotRail bonus pack will be available in April/May. This will consist of the following;
- 2 modern ScotRail liveries (official licensing pending).
- 5 scenarios for Edinburgh to Glasgow route (developed by Thomson Interactive).
- ScotRail cab view modifications and sanding equipment removal.
- Passenger announcements.
- LED destination display.
- Custom lighting and weather effects.


To date, only the Repaint Pack has been released.

I am going to state that I think Oovee has been good for the community. I have come to the conclusion that they have pushed the genre forward. Everything, from the buffer pack forward was done with the utmost of care and forward thinking. It is a loss, that such a company ceases to be interested.
As for the appologists, a commercial company has to decide where to draw the line. If the product for a new buyer is not what expected, then you have a choice whether to withdraw the product before time or continue to let it on sale. Update it, or let it die.

paulz6 wrote:I am going to state that I think Oovee has been good for the community. I have come to the conclusion that they have pushed the genre forward. Everything, from the buffer pack forward was done with the utmost of care and forward thinking. It is a loss, that such a company ceases to be interested.
As for the appologists, a commercial company has to decide where to draw the line. If the product for a new buyer is not what expected, then you have a choice whether to withdraw the product before time or continue to let it on sale. Update it, or let it die.

Where have they said they are no longer interested?

FoggyMorning wrote:

paulz6 wrote:I am going to state that I think Oovee has been good for the community. I have come to the conclusion that they have pushed the genre forward. Everything, from the buffer pack forward was done with the utmost of care and forward thinking. It is a loss, that such a company ceases to be interested.
As for the appologists, a commercial company has to decide where to draw the line. If the product for a new buyer is not what expected, then you have a choice whether to withdraw the product before time or continue to let it on sale. Update it, or let it die.

Where have they said they are no longer interested?

No where. But where has the consumer said they are willing to be a bottomless cash cow? It is a difficult market to crack. I for one will not be pushed into a situation that I do not understand the risks that was taken.

RailWorks customers are continuously requesting that our original products are updated with the new features that RailWorks 3 has to offer and coupled with our original commitments to provide product updates, take’s considerable time and money to reinvest on such a dynamic platform.

It is therefore the reason that I have decided that Oovee will not be committing to any future RailWorks products UNTIL original products, worthy of updating, are updated and provided to the end-user.

would seem to show a certain amount of interest, and indicate they're listening to the feedback from customers.
Basically they've said "OK, you want the new features TS2012 offers, so we'll look into it---but whilst we're doing that for you we wont be working on making new stuff"

We can speculate on what, if anything, is hidden behind the statement and argue the semantics of the wording till the (cash)cows (and TS2012 updated versions) come home but please lets not post speculation as fact.

boilerbill wrote:Although I commend Oovee on their statement, I feel that I must point out that Oovee's support for its Class 156 was already falling short before the TS2012 update. In Section 11 of the product manual, they included the following... etc.....

Thats not support, it's a statement of intent. I imagine that if anybody bought the 156 tomorrow and had bother installing/running it Oovee would provide assistance. If the opposite happened I'd be very surprised.

Well, as I've said a couple of times, I've requested support from Oovee twice (same issues), with no response. I know you're not saying this but I don't see why a support request for the 156 should be treated any differently to one for Hatchet Hill.

Not being an apologist myself and not being one frightened to say it how it is!! I read Oovees statement as a tactical withdrawal. It's very politician/football manager speak, eg lots of words but little firm detail, no timescales whatsoever and with a clearly negative undertone with regards to his future with RW. Purely my opinion only, but reading between the lines, to me he is saying "thanks for the support up to this point but I'm moving on to other things, however here's a little teaser just in case my other venture doesn't work out and so I need to keep the door open". I'm not digging at Oovee (I think his products have been superb) but it's just my interpretation of what was said and what has been evident for some time in reality.

It would seem a mere statement has turned Oovee into the Railworks version of area 51 and theories and assumptions are been thrown out faster than a minigun.

Funny how the UKtrainsim forums can turn a 3rd party vendor into the bad guy in the matter of days and the thread remain open, allowing for snipes and unnessessary comments to flow.

A bussiness wished to inform there customer base of what intentions they have in the future since they had been so many requests, said requests for all intents and purposes were taken into consideration and said requests in turn have produced the result that Oovee now is currently postponing all further development and focusing on "updating" their DLC items, AS PER REQUESTED by the fans.

So now Oovee are doing per request of fans, said fans are now in uproar because they are updating, as per requested.

Does anyone see the glaringly obvious irony to this entire situation which has developed?

Its hardly surprisingly we have had less and less 3rd party vendors post on this forum over the past year, especially when this is the reaction one gets from the uktrainsim forum posters for merely informing people of what they plan to do or what new products they maybe releasing. People are quick to judge and comment on facebook posts from people, but here isn't particularly starting to be any different when it comes down to posts.

So, how did Oovee manage to get access to Area 51 in order to be able to model it's rail system for RW?



...or am I reading too much into a statement?

Does anyone know what the system specs. are for Spintires? I fear I'm holding up RW development

gptech wrote:

RailWorks customers are continuously requesting that our original products are updated with the new features that RailWorks 3 has to offer and coupled with our original commitments to provide product updates, take’s considerable time and money to reinvest on such a dynamic platform.

It is therefore the reason that I have decided that Oovee will not be committing to any future RailWorks products UNTIL original products, worthy of updating, are updated and provided to the end-user.

would seem to show a certain amount of interest, and indicate they're listening to the feedback from customers.
Basically they've said "OK, you want the new features TS2012 offers, so we'll look into it---but whilst we're doing that for you we wont be working on making new stuff"

We can speculate on what, if anything, is hidden behind the statement and argue the semantics of the wording till the (cash)cows (and TS2012 updated versions) come home but please lets not post speculation as fact.

Watch their Facebook wall and email inboxes be full of requests for new models, despite the statement. Good on Zane and the team for listening to what the customer would like, but still continue to make money by providing for other games at the same time....