A Line in the Sand

[Darpor]

I saw never such a post in the golden age of Trainz ( 2004 and around ) on Auran's forum , but then it was 95 % freeware and 5 % payware.

You are unlikely to see a post like it anywhere such is the strangeness of the post. He bought the DLC off his own back, lots of it, nobody forced him or anyone else to do it.

At that time, not everyone who was able to put a loc together , thought he needed to get paid for it ; the payment was the satisfaction that he could help the community , and at the same time could use content made by others .
Now , for RW, there are still some who can do that , Russians , Italians , Spains.

Indeed, Russians, Italians, Spanish. But the Brits don't provide anything for free, and anything they do release for free spoils it for everyone else anyway.

Some others think that they have to ask 20 euro for a refub loco and 6 euro for a wagon . No wonder that people complain .

Whose fault is that though? Certainly not RSC. Certainly not any other creator who models and sells for that price. If you wish to blame anyone, blame the consumers, they are willing to pay for it so why should the vendor charge anything less?

Swings and roundabouts really. It's not confined to here, or even this thread but there are times when everyone wants all of this freeware yet decline to get involved themselves. Then, if someone does decide to release freeware (it's free regardless of what is required, any comment otherwise is out of order and you don't deserve what they provide) they can quite often be shot down for various reasons. Couple that with a lack of encouragement, the "gimme" brigade that don't want what is released, they just want it extended further or cannot provide constructive comment in a development thread other than "when is it released". Then there is the general griping nature of the forums at times (again, general comments about freeware not being free if it requires something) then I can completely see why either nobody bothers to start with or has given up despite being a top creator in the past.

[Retro]

To get back to Lines in the Sand. There are many instances of doing this in every day life. When it comes to Money spent you only have a certain amount so you make a decision to draw the line at a point where you cannot justify the expense of spending more on things you might not need at that moment in time. It is however very difficult to keep the line in one place. I have heard many people say they will not be buying anymore DLC and next minute they have some more. It must be some sort of collecting instinct that takes over your logical reasoning. For example I went to Asda today with the intention of buying a certain DVD. I eventually came out with three. If anyone has a solution of how to draw lines and stick to them without question it would be very helpful to know. I think it is called Willpower. Something I do not have a lot of especially when it comes to giving up smoking.
By the way Darren Philips was a great at getting in first with new technology. I have always used there Shavers.
Kind regards James.

[hertsbob]

If anyone has a solution of how to draw lines and stick to them without question it would be very helpful to know.

Never, ever go into a shop. Easy.

Cheers

Bob

[Kariban]

Stop wanting, it's pretty simple. Life becomes so much less stressful. You can want for fun, but never let it rule you.

Wasn't there some beach railway in Brighton with lines in the sand? and underwater at high tide too.

[Oldpufferspotter]

It's all very well saying 'stop wanting', but what if it's a 'must have'??

[anorak001]

When I buy a DLC it is normally because I want to try that particular DLC and are happy to pay for it, but what I do find irritating is that I have had to buy routes in the past that I have no interest in, one example would be the IOW route purely to enable me to run freeware routes that use some of the assets from the payware route. Would it not be possible to make buildings and other lineside assets available to the freeware developers free of charge say after a period of time, then they could include the assets with the freeware route download.

Sorry if I've rambled on abit.
Robin

[Darpor]

When I buy a DLC it is normally because I want to try that particular DLC and are happy to pay for it, but what I do find irritating is that I have had to buy routes in the past that I have no interest in, one example would be the IOW route purely to enable me to run freeware routes that use some of the assets from the payware route.

You have the option, you have not had to buy the IOW at all. If the developer has chosen to use these assets, it's down to them, you make it sound as if the freeware developer has placed a burden on you to download their route.

The beauty here is that routes such as the IOW are so widely used, for the small outlay you then potentially unlock a mountain of routes to download. It ain't really that bad.

Would it not be possible to make buildings and other lineside assets available to the freeware developers free of charge say after a period of time, then they could include the assets with the freeware route download.

But it is a payware route, where does the commercial sense come from a company to release assets for free? People buy routes such as the IOW for the route itself, or alternatively the assets included to build a route.

[SCLALINE]

I think that is an issue alot of developers have, i for one have a 223 mile route, i use some dlc as placeholders because the sheer amount of models i need to produce is overwhelming and i cannot realistically even begin to think i will be able to create them all in a decent time frame and for me route building is a hobby, i try to keep the 3rd party DLC down to a minimum as not to burden those who have an issue buying routes but honestly content creation is time consuming and requires alot of work which i think people forget about, they complain on having to purchase alot of things but in this economy not many people can really expel alot of time and energy buildings models for nothing.

and lets face it, 3rd party payware generally is alot better than the DLC, and some freeware really isnt up to standard

[bigvern]

RSC have repeatedly gone on record as saying IOW will never be put in the core product, so it is almost inevitably going to be a requirement for freeware routes.

The freeware dependence on payware assets is another situation peculiar to the world of Railworks - never happened in MSTS and happens fairly infrequently in Trainz. However as Darren says, while the situation is permitted (I believe one US route author blocked use of assets from his payware routes), freeware authors will continue to draw on items from payware routes to get enough items to populate theirs.

I may yet, at the eleventh hour, still buy NEC as there's loads of assets to use in a modern route, plus the decent looking concrete track.

[gypbrc]

I'm drawing my line in the sand at the point where loco's and units meet. I've realised that I just don't use loco's, no matter how well developed. The Class 57 for example is perhaps the best example of the diesels, but I can't say as I've ever driven more than a few hours in it. The Class 67 is perhaps one of RSC's best locomotives, but again I've barely driven it. This in contrast to the Class 450 that came with PDL; even with the dire state that it's currently in, I've driven it more than the 57 and 67 put together. So I concentrated my RW time and enjoyment into making RW suit my preferences.

[malkymackay]

My new years resolution is to never buy another wagon pack again, there is no way we should be paying for freight trucks, at the very least they should be coming free with locos and other products. To be fair to RSC this is something they have not stooped to and rightly so I now believe.

Why shouldn't quality freight stock be worth paying for? Most of the Classic BR diesel fleet is now available, but the surface has barely been scratched as far as the wagons they pulled are concerned. Coaching stock is only marginally better off. I think it's somewhat disrespectful to the creators of well modelled rolling stock, to suggest their efforts should be given away.

[Kariban]

Aha, I knew it: http://www.urban75.org/railway/brighton ... ilway.html

Lines in the surf!

[loverswalk]

I saw never such a post in the golden age of Trainz ( 2004 and around ) on Auran's forum , but then it was 95 % freeware and 5 % payware.
At that time, not everyone who was able to put a loc together , thought he needed to get paid for it ; the payment was the satisfaction that he could help the community , and at the same time could use content made by others .
Now , for RW, there are still some who can do that , Russians , Italians , Spains.
Some others think that they have to ask 20 euro for a refub loco and 6 euro for a wagon . No wonder that people complain .

That's a good point well made. If you're going to charge between 10 and 15 pounds for a loco then really it should be the best it can possibly be with the technology available and should ooze professional quality. I think that's the crux of the issue right there, we are often paying top dollar for something that is not top quality and in some cases no better in quality than stuff that was with the original rail simulator game. RSC and the other payware firms are not charities, they are charging big money for their products and if they're not good enough then they have to expect a backlash. Interesting point about wagons too. I'm as guilty as anyone and have bought several wagon packs. Thinking back it's pretty terrible really. In the days of MSTS we would never in a million years have paid £5 for a single type of wagon, it was simply not the done thing. My new years resolution is to never buy another wagon pack again, there is no way we should be paying for freight trucks, at the very least they should be coming free with locos and other products. To be fair to RSC this is something they have not stooped to and rightly so I now believe.

Jimmy while I agree with the points you've raised regarding Cabviews and slipping standards regarding loco physics and route quality,on wagons I think your in danger of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" especialy when you look at the quality and value for money coming out of Fastline.
LW

[jimmyshand]

Sorry mate but like I said, it's just my view and my new years resolution to not buy anymore wagon packs. I've been guilty of it in the past and willingly bought several but I've had a change of heart and I just don't think we should have to buy standalone wagons. There are many developers doing it and to be brutally honest it seems to be an easier way to get something to Market rather than creating a loco. Some of the wagons that have been released are little more than refurbs of default stock or so similar to default stock that it's not worth paying for. If freight trucks are your thing then you will disagree but for me a truck is a truck and we've got thousands of the things already and highly detailed too. In fact this is one area where I can applaud RSC and JT as they both have included new freight wagons with their loco releases. Most recently the excellent Sealions that came with the class 33, that's what I'd like to see more of.

[longbow]

It's pretty clear to me that the flow of money into DLC has resulted in a better game with better quality and choice than would otherwise have been the case.

As the choice of DLC has grown I have certainly become more selective about what I buy. As in other walks of life I find that stuff I didn't want until it was hugely discounted tends to gather virtual dust.