A Line in the Sand

[bigvern]

We are probably drifing a bit off topic here and not starting the old RW vs Trainz debate again, but...

My take is that Rail Simulator and Railworks was aimed squarely at the MSTS demographic, unfortunately quite a few people decided to stay with MSTS (and still do)...

Trainz started as a means of selling collectible digital items, morphed into a virtual model railroad and now also vies to be taken as a "serious" prototype sim. It also, incidentally, has quite a large payware and micro-payware element though there generally seems to be more resistance paying for things than is the case with Railworks.

Trainz now seems to be slightly more skewed towards the US markets, a trend of course which RSC have followed with their recent policy as regards the content they are developing and selling. However in terms of market presence - in the shops and in "yer face" - RW probably dominates the UK scene.

Trainz also tends to be far more user friendly when it comes to developing routes, still sucks a bit at operations, but with recent improvements to rolling stock physics makes some of the Railworks stuff look like the arcade game.

Zusi 3 IMHO will be a serious competitor, it is built on the existing excellence of Zusi 2 and certainly where RSC's fledgling German market is concerned, likely to deal a bit of a blow - all the more reason to pull their socks up, fix the German signalling and fix the physics issues with default locos, as a start...

[Retro]

Some very good points made here IMHO. The biggest problem that RSC have is fixing problems with DLC. The original Class 86 on the WCML has only just been fixed with the latest Update. It was unusable as it originally came out unless you did your own fix which took 5 minutes at the most. This has happened with a fair number of Locomotives. They have got to put right problems with DLC as soon as they are found as other Third Party Payware Developers do. The core program fixes and bugs are still plentiful and some of them would not take long to fix. Transparent sections in Default Bridge Lofts is one example. There are daytime issues with the new Point Lights. How did this get past them ?. The Jelly Cab bug which now cause all loss of Keyboard Control. The Jelly bit has been there since Rail Simulator. I could go on but my next and only purchase will be the Woodhead Route. If this is truly excellent I might then have more faith in the company.
At this present moment in time I think they are losing there credibility with the standard of recent releases. Any good Freeware Route Builder would not release something with so many errors. With me it would be a matter of pride in my work, that other people are going to see and use. Money seems to be the all important thing in society in general today. At one time it used to be about producing quality products that work.
Kind regards James.

[Kariban]

Don't kid yourself, it was always about money. We're just more efficient about cutting corners now.

[Retro]

Don't kid yourself, it was always about money. We're just more efficient about cutting corners now.

Point taken. But I was referring more to getting value for the money spent. For example if you bought a Bang and Olufsen product you could expect to pay more but the quality, reliability and design where spot on. My B and O Speakers which I bought over 30 years ago are still working and sound just as good as on the day I bought them.
Kind regards James.

[Darpor]

Yet another strange thread this one, there have been lots recently.

However, what has all of the calls for boycotting and complaining about non-updated DLC got to do with the original post? There are dozens of other threads where many of the posters have posted the exact same thing, despite being told not to.

What we had in the OP, was someone who bought thirteen products in the half price sale, then had a ramble (his word ) about not justifying the expense, comparing it to what he could have bought, and not even having time to use them. So why buy them if you either couldn't afford them or could have spent your money on something else or have mountains of alternative freeware? To then see the thread descend into a 4 page gripe (that's fine, it's just nearly in every other thread) is baffling beyond belief, when most of the discussion has little or nothing to do with the original post.

In fact, the original post confused me, to see how the thread has turned since confuses me even more!

Point taken. But I was referring more to getting value for the money spent. For example if you bought a Bang and Olufsen product you could expect to pay more but the quality, reliability and design where spot on. My B and O Speakers which I bought over 30 years ago are still working and sound just as good as on the day I bought them.
Kind regards James.

Don't you mean "My Philips Speakers"?

[markpullinger]

Their televisions & videos weren't as reliable - well mine weren't anyway!

[Oldpufferspotter]

This thread is like all chats over the garden fence, one thing leads to another. And don't we all 'keep on' about our pet gripes?
[Here comes that Ted again, don't let him get on to train simulators again, he'll bore the pants off you!]
regards (er) Ted.

[gptech]

Just a question about the suggested boycot of RSC DLC..... how are we going to know when it's *good enough* if nobody has bought it to be able to report about it?

[FoggyMorning]

Just a question about the suggested boycot of RSC DLC..... how are we going to know when it's *good enough* if nobody has bought it to be able to report about it?

And how do you differentiate between somebody who's boycotting it and somebody who's not buying it because they don't want it!?

[exshunter]

When i mentioned Boycotting DLC , i was talking about myself

[briyeo1950]

I haven't bought a single thing in the holiday sale yet, Take that RSC, right in the bank balance.
My line in the sand faded a little this afternoon when I put the GG1 in my shopping basket, but I saw sense just in time and chucked it back out again
I have really enjoyed the RW franchise over the years, but sometimes the frustrations just get too much

[Acorncomputer]

The trouble with lines in the sand is that eventually they get washed away

[briyeo1950]

The trouble with lines in the sand is that eventually they get washed away

Yep, twice a day if it's on the beach

[erikkr]

I saw never such a post in the golden age of Trainz ( 2004 and around ) on Auran's forum , but then it was 95 % freeware and 5 % payware.
At that time, not everyone who was able to put a loc together , thought he needed to get paid for it ; the payment was the satisfaction that he could help the community , and at the same time could use content made by others .
Now , for RW, there are still some who can do that , Russians , Italians , Spains.
Some others think that they have to ask 20 euro for a refub loco and 6 euro for a wagon . No wonder that people complain .

[jimmyshand]

I saw never such a post in the golden age of Trainz ( 2004 and around ) on Auran's forum , but then it was 95 % freeware and 5 % payware.
At that time, not everyone who was able to put a loc together , thought he needed to get paid for it ; the payment was the satisfaction that he could help the community , and at the same time could use content made by others .
Now , for RW, there are still some who can do that , Russians , Italians , Spains.
Some others think that they have to ask 20 euro for a refub loco and 6 euro for a wagon . No wonder that people complain .

That's a good point well made. If you're going to charge between 10 and 15 pounds for a loco then really it should be the best it can possibly be with the technology available and should ooze professional quality. I think that's the crux of the issue right there, we are often paying top dollar for something that is not top quality and in some cases no better in quality than stuff that was with the original rail simulator game. RSC and the other payware firms are not charities, they are charging big money for their products and if they're not good enough then they have to expect a backlash. Interesting point about wagons too. I'm as guilty as anyone and have bought several wagon packs. Thinking back it's pretty terrible really. In the days of MSTS we would never in a million years have paid £5 for a single type of wagon, it was simply not the done thing. My new years resolution is to never buy another wagon pack again, there is no way we should be paying for freight trucks, at the very least they should be coming free with locos and other products. To be fair to RSC this is something they have not stooped to and rightly so I now believe.