A Line in the Sand

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pjt1974
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by pjt1974 »

I honestly believe there has been a change in trend as far as RSC releasing DLC.
Before, RSC were reliant on sales, as any business is, however due to the relatively small user base compared to now, they had to concentrate on quantity of releases because they couldn't count on quantity of sales. It was normal to have 3 or 4 releases in a month.
With the ever increasing users of Railworks, it seems to have turned, RSC can now count on the sales of one piece of DLC covering and probably exceeding the sales target of 3 or 4 from before.
Add to that, the ever increasing work that is inevitably going into new DLC because of the update, you will probably find less and less releases per month.

I think also the buying trend has changed somewhat compared to 13 - 18 months ago. Before, when an item of DLC was released, there was a scramble to be the first to buy it. Now there seems to be a more measured approach. Potential buyers wieghing up thier options. How long till the next sale? Is this really a must have?

There are many reasons for this approach, personal circumstances in the current climate, buyers being stung by buying full price then seeing the same content at half price in 6 weeks time (there were even some not taking advantage of the current 50% sale because they were paranoid of a 75% sale like last year, not a critisism, just an observation) and the item or DLC not being up to standard needing further patches to bring it up to scratch.

I have to admit I'm as guilty as anyone in over spending in the DLC compartment, my trends have turned. I will only buy if I need it. I won (by hook or by crook) a free DLC from RSC for my entry in the scenario Challenge and I've already got two of the three options with an American loco as the third. I'm thinking of passing it up because all it'd do would take up HD space and never get used. I wonder if they'd make a donation to the Railway Children Charity instead?

Anyway enough said by me apart from I think the Woodhead looks great, a bit late as I consider it should've been the shwcase route for the release of RW3 to us brits, but that's another topic. Still looking forward to it though, once I've got the new pc early next year :D
For disclosure, I am affiliated with a third party developer however, I do not know anything about any future releases unless I'm working on them and even then, I'd be breaking years worth of built up trust to say anything about it ;-)
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by AndyM77 »

pjt1974 wrote:I have to admit I'm as guilty as anyone in over spending in the DLC compartment, my trends have turned. I will only buy if I need it. I won (by hook or by crook) a free DLC from RSC for my entry in the scenario Challenge and I've already got two of the three options with an American loco as the third. I'm thinking of passing it up because all it'd do would take up HD space and never get used. I wonder if they'd make a donation to the Railway Children Charity instead?
You'll get a code to activate "x" product (whichever you choose) - you could always raffle it off / give it to a friend on your Steam "friends" list. :wink: (that's not a hint BTW :lol: )
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firetrap1
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by firetrap1 »

What I don't understand is why RSC don't have any DLC related scenario packs for download. I will happily buy DLC stock, like many others, but once the two or three included scenarios are played to death I get bored and stop using the content. In my opinion I feel that RSC would do well to introduce scenario packs for default and DLC routes with around 5 scenarios for £2.99, they all don't need to include complicated instructions, just regular passenger runs from A to B. They don't even take that long to make and produce, so RSC could employ one person to create 2 or 3 scenarios per day, and within a week have a nice fully tested scenario pack to sell. The only difficult job would be researching prototypical operations for the different routes.
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1S811985
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by 1S811985 »

I bought the RSC produced Black5 scenario pack and if memory serves the first two I tried were broken with AI collisions and to the best of my knowledge this has never been corrected. I've never bothered with scenario packs since. More than a few of the bundled scenarios that come with DLC have similar issues, or are either rather unimaginative or too unprototypical to engage my interest.

On the upside, it was this experience that prompted me to venture into the scenario editor and I haven't looked back since. The only drawback being that creating a scenario involves having to play it through about half a dozen times so that I'm sick of the sight of it by the time its finished! Happily though, you can go back to them after enough time has passed and enjoy them almost anew.

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pjt1974
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by pjt1974 »

AndyM77 wrote:
pjt1974 wrote:I have to admit I'm as guilty as anyone in over spending in the DLC compartment, my trends have turned. I will only buy if I need it. I won (by hook or by crook) a free DLC from RSC for my entry in the scenario Challenge and I've already got two of the three options with an American loco as the third. I'm thinking of passing it up because all it'd do would take up HD space and never get used. I wonder if they'd make a donation to the Railway Children Charity instead?
You'll get a code to activate "x" product (whichever you choose) - you could always raffle it off / give it to a friend on your Steam "friends" list. :wink: (that's not a hint BTW :lol: )
Thanks Andy

I honestly didn't know I could do that. Be nice to me people, I've got a download to give away. :D
Only kidding I know where it's going.

Regards
Phil
For disclosure, I am affiliated with a third party developer however, I do not know anything about any future releases unless I'm working on them and even then, I'd be breaking years worth of built up trust to say anything about it ;-)
jimmyshand
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by jimmyshand »

I'm definitely being more selective now over what DLC I purchase. This is partly out of circumstances (wage freezes, reduction in family tax credits, pension increases etc) and partly out of feeling "ripped off" by several poor quality releases. I've also learned some lessons over time and stopped buying DLC that doesn't appeal to my era of interest. These purchases invariably just end up clogging up the hard drive and never get used. My interest in railways is very specific and confined only to classic diesel and electrics and to a lesser degree some of the modern scene. In the early days I would buy anything and everything that was released including steam engines (for which I have virtually no interest)!! Looking back I can't quite understand some of the purchases I made and I cringe at the money wasted on items I never use.

Even in the Steam 50% sale I have limited myself to one purchase only, the class 150. To be honest I probably wouldn't have bothered with this if it weren't for the abundance of scenarios featuring it and in particular to unlock the bulk of scenarios within the South West Wales route. I've hovered and pondered over the Class 325 and Class 455 but I just can't do it, even at 50%. That's still £5.99 each for stock I'm not really interested in and that I probably won't use for more than a couple of runs if at all. At 75% I would have done it.

I suppose the evolution of the sim has got to the point where users can be more choosey over what they buy. In the early days people would buy anything that was released just to get some temporary relief from the default stock!! Now with an abundance of stock across all era's and scenes then the craving for new content has been somewhat dampened and I'm more content with what I've already got. I've probably got enough unplayed scenarios to keep me going for the rest of my life! This factor has also become apparent in the purchasing of wagon packs. In the early days, I was buying up wagon packs from anyone and everyone just to get some variety and free scenario's. Now I have such a humungous collection of freight wagons that there is absolutely no need to buy anymore, ever. Unless you're a freight wagon fanatic (I'm not particularly) then you can easily get by through swapping out via RW tools.
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by Acorncomputer »

Hi all

Looking at the download figures for the UKTS Freeware packs, these seem to be very popular indeed and provide a very wide range of re-skins for freeware and default rolling stock. The choice is now much greater from both payware and freeware, so we can afford the luxury of being more choosy about what we buy and use.
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johnmckenzie
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by johnmckenzie »

pacerfan wrote:The scenario on Hagen-Siegen I just put the thottle to the max and watched as it just kept going faster and faster, Of course I failed the scenario that time as I just watched the scud doing its best TGV impression and I was not going to let a little thing like stopping at the stations ruin It
That explains it! Hagen to Siegen is a German route - and on German routes Railworks quotes the the speed in km/h, not mph - 140 km/h is about 87.5 mph.
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jarmstro
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by jarmstro »

No one is forced to buy any payware DLC. Freeware for this sim is plentiful and exceptional. The Settle and Carlisle route, for instance, is just as good as any of the payware routes and comes with several scenarios to boot!

With regard to the forthcoming Woodhead route, I for one will not be purchasing it because, quite frankly, it was a bore of a line after it was electrified. It goes from nowhere to nowhere over nothing but dreary bog and moor! :D At least, pre electrification, there was interest in having to bank and pilot to overcome the gradients. And I dread the endless "I can't run it" threads. I would however be pleased to pay for a nice 1860's London to Brighton route!!! 8)

(EDIT. Or Bristol to Paddington in Broad Gauge days!)

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Oldpufferspotter
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by Oldpufferspotter »

London to Brighton in the 1860s? Well, we already have the freeware Terrier tanks in LBSC livery (Fenchurch and Brighton Works), and the lovely yellow Abergavenny 2-2-2 tender loco, together with the LBSC 4-wheeler suburban coaches (all freeware). Time to start laying some track?
regards Ted.
er Yellow? Sorry, Stroudley Improved Engine Green!
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Acorncomputer
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by Acorncomputer »

Oldpufferspotter wrote:London to Brighton in the 1860s? Well, we already have the freeware Terrier tanks in LBSC livery (Fenchurch and Brighton Works), and the lovely yellow Abergavenny 2-2-2 tender loco, together with the LBSC 4-wheeler suburban coaches (all freeware). Time to start laying some track?
regards Ted.
er Yellow? Sorry, Stroudley Improved Engine Green!
London to Brighton would be good in the 1860's. I was amazed to find out that there was a locomotive works in Horley where I live and where Waitrose now stands, and a Loco Shed has been preserved and is now being used as a factory outlet store.

Walking on history whilst choosing the week's vegetables or the discounted shoes :x-mas:
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by SquidvT »

As long as people keep buying DLC in droves, regardless of its quality, RSC have no reason to change things.

3rd party developers are showing what can be achieved and also tend to release far better addons. Given that their release schedules are much more fogiving and that they seem to have personal pride in their releases, that isnt surprising.

I am never going to buy DLC from RSC without first checking with other users as to their take on it. Again a proper review site for DLC would be amazing, and I imagine be very popular.

On the flipside if trusted 3rd Parties bring something out, I tend to buy on impulse as previous experiance has shown they can be trusted to offer something decent and worth the money.

In an ideal world RSC would concerntrate on making sure that their current content works, bug free without churning out a endless supply of average or below par offerings. In the real world I imagine they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Im following the progress of woodhead closely, its a route that intrests me and it looks to be very nice indeed. But then again so did the GWR King, and we all know what happend with that one. Where are the promised fixes? Burried under a pile of new content presumably.

At least now RSC seem to have woken up to the idea that beta-testing is actually a good thing. Perhaps we will see an improvement? Perhaps if enough of us vote with our credit cards it might improve the chances of it happening.
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by LocoPower »

Sometimes it feels like I'm walking into a headwind, but then threads like this crop up which reassure me I'm not the only one. When it comes to buying DLC, I've believed for some time now that the key is to look at who is developing it, rather than publishing it. And when you classify content according to developers, some clear patterns emerge, imho. Apart from a couple of niggles, mostly inherited from core functionality, products from the likes of Oovee and Thomson appear to be universally acclaimed.

And then there's stuff developed by RSC, which is what this thread tends to focus on. I too have felt for a while that their products were lacking in quality and polish. Worse than that is the complete disinterest in getting them fixed and dealt with. The list of issues, incorrect features or outright faults with the back catalogue of DLC is so long I don't stand a chance of remembering it all.

This thread is a good example. The RSC products get slated for being... featureless at best, unfinished at worst. We have a Class 325 with fundamental control inaccuracies and a thoroughly non-interactive and featureless cab and poor physics. Or a 101 with a diesel-mechanical transmission that defies the laws of physics. Or a Class 31 which (I'm led to believe) simply copies the entire physics of the Class 37. Or a Class 37 with bizarre, power-sapping field diverts. Or default wagons with brakes that are either on or off. Or Donner Pass, which I recall being described by Paul Jackon (OBE) as "epic" in a pre-release forum post, but which screenshots revealed to be in a worse shape than many first WIP shots of freeware routes. Or an IC-liveried Mark 1 BG supplied with the WCMLN update which appears to have no air brakes. Or as mentioned in the other thread, the Class 33 (and 101, for that matter) which only have half a cab. Or a Class 66 and 67 which I understand have completely the wrong type of brake control (I think they should be like Dave Brindley's freeware class 58?). And possibly the icing on the cake... the Class 450, part of the PDL route. Is there any unit in RW that has spent more time of it's life more broken than this? It's bad enough that it is one of the most featureless models RSC has produced, yet another featureless cab that consists of little more than a speedo, a reverser and a combined power handle. As initially supplied, it drove like a rocket ship to the extent that you know nobody at RSC has sat down and asked themselves, "is this correct?". Eventually, RSC issued an update to tame the power, but failed to fix the brakes. Then the TS2012 update came along, and it's broken again, being severely underpowered.

Compare the 450 against the 150 and you begin to wonder if they're from the same game, such is the gulf in quality, realism and features between the two.

I suspect another comparison is going to be possible in the future when RSC release their Class 70. I'll buy it, if it betters the Class 57. I want realistic, accurate, prototypical controls. I want an interactive cab with as many controls functional as other third-party developers have shown to be possible (slow speed control, full lighting controls, start-up routines, etc). And most of all, I want accurate, realistic physics and driving characteristics. I'm not paying another £11.99, or even £5.99, for another box on wheels, even if it's a beautifully modelled box, if it doesn't offer anything other than some method of making it go forwards or backwards.

I'm sick of the slap-dash, fire-and-forget attitude towards DLC that RSC seem to exhibit, and I'm in no hurry to give them any more money until they start to take their existing customers more seriously and set about addressing the issues with their existing content. I've bought nothing made by RSC in the current Steam sale. The only RSC thing I've bought recently is the Class 325 with the 50% off voucher, and as time has gone on, even that has left me feeling short changed. Yes, it was half price, and only the cost of a couple of pints, but you know what? I'd probably have had more satisfaction out of a couple of pints than I've had with the 325.

And that's my own, personal line in the sand: no more purchases of RSC-developed content until something dramatic changes.
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by bigvern »

In the end I put my hand back in my pocket as regards getting anything in the sale, partly due to external financial eventualities (like the car MOT today) but mainly because I could not bring myself to buy something I would be disappointed with or end up not using. That's not to say I'm not exploring what RW has to offer in other areas. I've already waxed lyrical about the Albula V2 freeware route in it's thread, I'm enjoying this far more than just about any of the payware routes I've purchased to date. the train.de has yielded some freeware German UIC corridor stock, which I have been after for ages and there's some other goodies lurking on there to check out. If I can round up all the dependencies, I know CKP is another superb route waiting to be discovered.
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ightenhill
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Re: A Line in the Sand

Post by ightenhill »

LocoPower wrote: I suspect another comparison is going to be possible in the future when RSC release their Class 70. I'll buy it, if it betters the Class 57. I want realistic, accurate, prototypical controls. I want an interactive cab with as many controls functional as other third-party developers have shown to be possible (slow speed control, full lighting controls, start-up routines, etc). And most of all, I want accurate, realistic physics and driving characteristics. I'm not paying another £11.99, or even £5.99, for another box on wheels, even if it's a beautifully modelled box, if it doesn't offer anything other than some method of making it go forwards or backwards.

I'm sick of the slap-dash, fire-and-forget attitude towards DLC that RSC seem to exhibit, and I'm in no hurry to give them any more money until they start to take their existing customers more seriously and set about addressing the issues with their existing content. I've bought nothing made by RSC in the current Steam sale. The only RSC thing I've bought recently is the Class 325 with the 50% off voucher, and as time has gone on, even that has left me feeling short changed. Yes, it was half price, and only the cost of a couple of pints, but you know what? I'd probably have had more satisfaction out of a couple of pints than I've had with the 325.

And that's my own, personal line in the sand: no more purchases of RSC-developed content until something dramatic changes.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.. If this sale has done anything its opened my eyes to how horrible and unfinished some of RSCs recent releases are compared to some of the third party and free stuff available.. My only regret is I fell for the sale con.. my only hope is they take the money and spend it to create better products... But I wont be spending another penny until I see they are producing to the quality of other producers or admitting via the price tag that there products fall way short of finished...
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