Atomic Systems

A while ago I made a video in the video section about a very long freight train (jokingly) transporting RW3 boxed in doublestack containers.
In my own mind it was a bit unrealistic because of the train being a bit too long and the amount of locomotives not sufficient for the job.
And in my video the train had a reasonable high speed.

But then I came across a real life train movie and the train is going quite fast and has no loc on the end of the train to help pushing.
Of course the speed of a train depends heavily on circumstances, like grades and weight of the train and all sorts of things.
Maybe somewhat unsafe crossings or sidings or whatever can cause slow speed of course, I do understand that.

But I'd like to show that freight trains can be quite fast too at times.
Just look at the following video. Quite a long train at a reasonable speed in my opinion.
The video is recorded at a crossing and is not recorded by myself obviously.

Anyway, if you have the time to view it.. here it is.
Title of the video is: "HD BNSF 5190 Fast Freight in the Columbia River Gorge"
And the vid is made by Ervans. I didn't create it.

Cheers ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vkbNrzNTMo

That's only about 40mph, actually - not substantially faster than a 1950s steam-hauled freight service in Britain - and looks fast only because a relatively wide angle has been set on the camera. The same type of traffic is normally hauled at 75mph in Britain and Europe - which is quite an awesome sight when it goes through the station beside the platform you're standing on.

Container traffic is much lighter per vehicle than other types, because each container has a strict weight limit and the goods it carries are often less dense than, say, bulk minerals or liquids. This allows many containers to be hauled around with relatively little power, especially on approximately level track. Even over Shap and Beattock, a pair of 86s are sufficient for the container trains used in Britain, and these are not known for their massive freight-hauling abilities.

So I am not at all surprised that three modern American freight locos can sustain that speed on roughly level track. They could probably just about do so with a bulk freight train of similar length, although in practice they would probably add a tail-end loco as well.

I have to say that the camera angle does make it look faster. But still quite some speed for such a long train. Even if it is 40 mph, I'm still impressed.
And I'm not used to see these kind of trains except from youtube or other sources.
Anyway, still a nice vid to see and I am still somewhat bewildered that such an huge train can be this fast still.
But it is all in the eye of the beholder of course. One person thinks "wow thats fast" and the other might say "normal speed, nothing fancy".
It is all subject to the observer or watcher of the video of course.

But in all honesty, Kromaatikse, you have made a good post and I agree with all of what you have explained.

I just had a moment of "wow.. such a long train at 40 or 45 mph !". it was a bit impulsive of me.
A moment of enjoyment without the thinking about the weight or anything. just the length impressed me.
I'm easily impressed when it comes to railway

I agree, although my estimate of the speed in the video was a bit slower than that, I was thinking 30-35 mph. That's based on it looking quite similar to container trains at a crossing near here which go at about 55 km/h, and then reducing the speed estimate a little more because bigger locos and double-stacking would make it appear faster.

The maximum speed limit for freight in the US is only 55 mph (88 km/h) on even the best-maintained tracks, which is some 30 km/h slower than in Australia and Britain. We run freight trains up to 1800m long at 120 km/h on a regular basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdeuuZ3_Jyk

Not sure he'd even got up to speed there, Harrow isn't that far from Willesden. Those things tend to try and suck you off the platform worse than passing express trains...

Kariban wrote:Not sure he'd even got up to speed there, Harrow isn't that far from Willesden. Those things tend to try and suck you off the platform worse than passing express trains...

The Class 70 has a seriously good amount of both power and torque, and it's designed for mainline hauling of heavier coal trains, so with a container train it would get up to speed very quickly. A more conventional single-cab version with a similar drivetrain is soon to be introduced on trial in Queensland for coal and intermodal traffic, where the trains are far heavier per loco even with multiple working.

It's the gaps between the containers that do that, making for a lot more turbulent air. Passenger trains, especially modern multiple units, make for far less turbulence because of the much shorter gap between each vehicle which also has the concertina connection occupying up to 75% of the cross section at the point. Having unloaded wagons in the middle of the rake (or partially loaded wagons) would make things far worse (and cost extra in fuel and acceleration time) than stacking up all the loaded wagons right at the front behind the loco.

A good high-speed train like an ICE or Shinkansen will have had body shell prototypes tested in wind tunnels and with monitoring equipment on platforms in order to deal with any aerodynamic deficiencies. The combined effect of frontal air resistance, turbulence and drag increases in proportion to the square of the train's velocity, so any slight improvement in the aerodynamics can lead to a significant improvement in top speed or the ability to hit the same speeds using a significantly lower amount of power.

Somebody tried it here, adding a flexible concertina-style connector between container wagons to make the aerodynamic profile smoother. It made for a decent saving in fuel costs, but the time taken to attach it and reattach it at freight terminals made it unprofitable.

The fastest trains in the USA seem to be what they call 'piggy-backs' - trains with flatcars carrying semitrailers. Often such a train can have about 25 trailers, but still have 3 4500-hp locomotives in front - and operates at up to 70 mph (if the infrastructure allows it, of course... )

transadelaide wrote:It's the gaps between the containers that do that, making for a lot more turbulent air. Passenger trains, especially modern multiple units, make for far less turbulence because of the much shorter gap between each vehicle which also has the concertina connection occupying up to 75% of the cross section at the point. Having unloaded wagons in the middle of the rake (or partially loaded wagons) would make things far worse (and cost extra in fuel and acceleration time) than stacking up all the loaded wagons right at the front behind the loco.

The worst for that are empty OTA log carrier wagons http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4887610095/ I'm sure I remember the station staff at Oxenholme being very upset that all their lovely hanging baskets got ripped off their hooks when a set of empties sped through one day.

transadelaide wrote:The maximum speed limit for freight in the US is only 55 mph (88 km/h) on even the best-maintained tracks

Hmm, not actually true; it's dependant on the classification of the track and can be as high as 80mph on some routes. I've been fortunate enough to pace a few high speed freight trains in the US, particularly out West in Arizona and they rock on pretty good Not my vids, but you'll see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xznP1Sfx0U
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCms5LeLidc

Cheers, Rik.

Kariban wrote: Not sure he'd even got up to speed there, Harrow isn't that far from Willesden...

Surely that's heading south towards Willesden? And is also about 5 miles into the downhill stretch...

Just thought I'd point that out.

Cheers

Bob

transadelaide wrote:The maximum speed limit for freight in the US is only 55 mph (88 km/h) on even the best-maintained tracks(...)

That's just not true.
Depending on circumstances, all trains are allowed to travel at a maximum of 79 mph. Freight and Passenger.
However, on most lines where there is passsenger traffic, speed limits for freights are a bit lower than those for passenger services.

If line and train are equipped with additional safety devices, trains may even exceed the 79 mph limit.
Such systems for example can be cab signalling or automatic train control.

Also look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limi ... tes_(rail)

hertsbob wrote:

Kariban wrote: Not sure he'd even got up to speed there, Harrow isn't that far from Willesden...

Surely that's heading south towards Willesden? And is also about 5 miles into the downhill stretch...

Just thought I'd point that out.

Cheers

Bob

Yes, I was gazing at the opening screen of it & realised it too late to care about editing the post. I presume the relief road there is faster than 75mph these days?

It'd make a change to have some high-speed US freight route sections.

Kariban wrote:I presume the relief road there is faster than 75mph these days?

I'd have thought the limit must be faster than that for passenger trains, yes

Cheers

Bob

transadelaide wrote: The Class 70 has a seriously good amount of both power and torque, and it's designed for mainline hauling of heavier coal trains, so with a container train it would get up to speed very quickly.

I am not trying to be funny, but I have yet to see a freight train get up to speed

very quickly

unless its empty, of course.
I would like to see a loco, get to 75mph pulling a good bit of weight, quickly.
And I have never seen that happen, even with class 70's.

At the other end of the scale, I remember reading about a now closed short line in the USA.
Remember I said short line, over 100 miles long with a maximum speed of 12 mph.
The only excitement of the day came if a freight car derailed or a coupling broke.
Spare coupler knuckles were carried on the locomotive along with re-railers and usually a derailed vehicle could be put back on the track without too much trouble.
The track was in such dis-repair that the engineer had little chance of nodding off.
Another long gone, long short line was the Lone Pine branch out West in the Mojave desert.
http://www.abandonedrails.com/Lone_Pine_Branch

Chris.