Atomic Systems

gptech wrote:

Retro wrote:Thanks for all the advice. It is much appreciated. I have had a look at the Scan Website. Do they only sell the components or actually build a PC for you ?

Scan do a build service, another local(ish) supplier you might like to look at is Aria---http://www.aria.co.uk---who are very flexible if you want to change the spec of a machine.

...or if you did fancy having a go at building it yourself, you can get installation insurance on a lot of parts bought from Scan. This covers you if you damage anything when you're building it - lasts for 28 days from date of purchase.

Hi,
Thanks for the advice on the Installation Insurance. That is something I was not aware of.
I am also becoming aware that a good machine which will run RW 3 well need not cost the earth from various PM's I have received. There seems to be a perception which I fully believed that the more money you spend will always get you better results hence some of my negativity on the subject. It would be interesting to know how others are getting on in TSX Mode to build a consensus of Specifications that will run it reasonably well. I am also hoping that this Topic may help a few others in the same position I am in.
Kind regards James.

Just discovered that my current Machine has a 460 watt PSU so I am puzzled as to why a 9800GT 1gig card caused a problem as it's power needs say a 400 Watt PSU is OK.
Is there a Modern Equivalent to this card ?
Kind regards James.

retro,

I get good performance with the system below, but have had to sacrifice a few settings with TSX on: Aniso filtering is only on x2 or x4, and I'm on no AA at all. With that, I can have most in game sliders on high, with a few on medium and detail level 7 - probably about the equivalent to clicking medium buttons on the launcher setup and in-game.. I get frame rates in the 20s most time, with a few low spots around big stations, and regular stutters and mini freezes on long routes, probably uploading new scenery. Framerates in the 20s appear smooth to me, at least. It's reasonably stable, though (*touches wood*), apart from one or two issues that others on here have had.

That lot cost something under £700 or so from Scan, and includes absolutely everything - keyboard/mouse, case, o/s, etc, and their installation insurance was £20 or so. I think you could trim a bit off the price here and there and get the same performance. From other posts on here, I understand this system's not quite balanced, with the GPU being at a lower level than everything else.

Having said that, I think the hardware advice FAQ is probably the best reference for people trying to spec a system.

ps. On your psu - it depends on the quality of it, and what else it's powering. A cheap unbranded uncertified psu is less likely to deliver a constant power supply up to it's maximum rating, and this is when things become unstable. Computer specs for full systems, and even people building bespoke systems for you, often quote cpu and gpu brands, but brush over the psu. That's where they claw the costs back, because a quality unit built to a recognised standard might be £60+, yet you can find an unbranded uncertified psu with the same power rating for £20 or so.

Retro wrote:Just discovered that my current Machine has a 460 watt PSU so I am puzzled as to why a 9800GT 1gig card caused a problem ......

You only have the shops word that that was in fact the problem---I'd be inclined to think they just messed it up and came up with a plausable reason.

Look at a 450 as an available modern day alternative to the 9800

Thanks for your replies Guy's. This is becoming quite an eye opener for me and dispels some of the myths about Computers that I held as truths.
Kind regards James.

I have been looking around and so far have only selected 2 items:-
The Coolermaster CM Storm Enforcer Case
GeForce GTX 560TI GPU

I am not sure if these are good choices however.
I have also been looking at Ukgaming and PC Specialist as well as all the others that people have recommended.
I am unsure about the Core I5 or Core I7 and wonder what the difference is as the price can be very similar.
I think this is going to take me a long time.
Any opinions welcome.
Kind regards James.

Retro wrote:..I am unsure about the Core I5 or Core I7 and wonder what the difference is as the price can be very similar....

The i5 runs at 3.3 GHz, the i7 at 3.4 so theres a difference that makes no differnce there. The i7 has a much larger L3 cache, which can make a performance difference in specific circumstances. The i7 (retail prices) is 50% more than the i5, a price hike which in my view doesn't justify the purchase for the slight performance boost.
If you see i5 and i7 based systems that are close in price you need to look and see what compromises have been made in the other components.

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated. So in your opinion Core I5 would be better value in this case. Would it be a good balance with the GPU? I thing I might be getting confused with overclocking or just getting confused
I have also been looking at SSD Drives and wonder how much space Windows 7 uses up.
Kind regards James.

The i5 arguably represents the best performance/price ratio, but either CPU would play nicely with the 550 GPU---arguably the best performance/price GPU now prices have dropped below those of the 460 and would be a sensible choice.
Many GPUs come factory overclocked, both AMD/ATI and nVidia have cottoned on to the idea that producing GPUs with conservative stock speeds gives OEMs a lot of scope to bump them up a bit and market them as 'better', when in reality it's dead easy to push a stock card that bit further----not that it's needed, overclocking is the new rock'n'roll y'see and is this years 'vogue' pastime.

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated.
Kind regards James.

gptech wrote:

Retro wrote:..I am unsure about the Core I5 or Core I7 and wonder what the difference is as the price can be very similar....

The i5 runs at 3.3 GHz, the i7 at 3.4 so theres a difference that makes no differnce there. The i7 has a much larger L3 cache, which can make a performance difference in specific circumstances. The i7 (retail prices) is 50% more than the i5, a price hike which in my view doesn't justify the purchase for the slight performance boost.
If you see i5 and i7 based systems that are close in price you need to look and see what compromises have been made in the other components.

I would agree 100% with this. an i7-2600K is currently around £250 retail and and i5-2500K around £160. In a real-life situation you are unlikely to see any difference (or only very marginal) in performance.

The important thing, at whatever performance level you are aiming at, is to ensure you have a balanced system with all the critical components. Paying extra for one higher performance component is a waste of money as the rest of the system will constrain the use of that extra performance. Conversely, one component that underperforms the rest of the system will contrain the other components from performing at their best. The trick is getting all of that right.

My suggestion is to consider your specification in the following order.

1. Decide on the CPU (Intel or AMD), considering the model and a good price/performance ratio (An i5-2500K would be a good choice here) and get a retail pack with heatsink/fan included or select a suitable beefy heatsink/fan to suit the processor.
2. Select a motherboard that matches your choice of CPU.
3. Select the amount of memory you want at a speed that matches the motherboard (almost certainly DDR3, and needs to be dual channel - 2x2Gb (4Gb in total) or 2x4Gb (8Gb in total) would be a good choice).
4. Select a graphics card that gives a good price/performance ratio and matches the performance of the rest. A good guide is that the graphics card should cost about the same as the CPU.
5. Select a power supply that has the capacity and stabilty to drive all the above (at least 600watts 80%+ efficiency)
6. Select the other components that you want (hard disk, optical drive)
7. Select your operating system (almost certainly Windows 7 64bit Home Premium to use memory over 4Gb)
8. Finally, select a case to put them all in.

An SSD can speed things up quite a bit for programs that rely on a lot of disk access, but they are very expensive for the capacity currently available and there are issues about their lifetime and long-term reliabilty.

Then if you are confident enough, order the bits and put it together yourself, or pay someone to build and test it to your specification (this could be money well spent as it could potentially save you a lot of grief!).

Regards

Mervyn

Thanks Mervyn for your suggestions and advice. From what you have said about matching prices the GTX 560TI with the Core I5 CPU are very much the same price for each. The GTX 560TI has a much better performance than the GPU I was originally thinking about on the first post of the Topic and with the Core I7 CPU would have been the weakest link.
I may end up purchasing Items as I can afford it and then putting it all together when I have the whole lot. The only disadvantage I can see in this is if anything is faulty I will not be able to check it until I have everything assembled and this may cause problems with getting replacement Items. I am wondering what the cost benefits really are between building a machine yourself or allowing a Company to build it.
I am finding it a bit of a minefield ATM but I certainly have a greater understanding with all the help and advice I have received in this Topic and by PM. Certainly going from the price of the original PC World Spec Machine I can now get a far better Machine and Monitor for less or similar to the amount I would have paid for just the PC.
The only problem with buying this way is you do not get to see the result in real life before you buy it and photographs can hide a great deal of potential problems in how things will fit in the case and the materials it is made of.
Kind regards James.

Retro wrote:....The only disadvantage I can see in this is if anything is faulty I will not be able to check it until I have everything assembled and this may cause problems with getting replacement Items......

Only if it takes you longer than the warranty period(s) to buy all the bits. If it takes you 6 months to gather all the components and you find (for example) the graphics card is dead it will still be within it's guarantee period. To be absolutely sure about getting replacements for any 'duff' parts just explain how you're going about things when you buy the parts--you'll find any reputable dealer will have no problems with components sitting unused for a period before testing.

Retro wrote: I am wondering what the cost benefits really are between building a machine yourself or allowing a Company to build it.

Building a PC yourself gives you the freedom to utilise whatever parts you like, pre-built often means you're constrained to what the builder offers; though most will happily change a spec to suit you. Cost wise you'd save maybe £100 by a self build, or more likely spend that amount on slightly better kit

Of course with a built machine you gain a warranty on the build, the PC as a whole rather than just the components--even Scans 'self build insurance' that has been mentioned only covers the components used, not the whole machine.

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated.
Kind regards James.