Realistic consists

[jan38]

Hello everybody,

I got a question about creating realistic consists.
I try to search on the internet for consists that suits the train and track.
Also I try to load and look at the original scenario's that comes with a certain route.

Example:
I have the class 60 diesel locomotive and I know its technical specifications, pulling power, torque, etcetera.
But I don't actually know what a typical freight train would look like in real life with a class 60 as loco, since I'm not from England.
I do however very much like the English diesels like the 37 (tractor), 47, 55, 57. love the sounds and looks.

Would it also be acceptable to create a consist derived from the locomotive power.
If a diesel unit has 3000 Horsepower then it is easy to calculate how many wagons/rolling stock should be behind the loco, but would it also be realistic.
Anyway, I'm going to search on the internet of course to look for more accurate consists of freight trains in england.
But if anyone has any suggestions about a website to find out more about freight consists, then it would be very much appreciated.

[USRailFan]

I know a single Class 60 hauls 30 TEAs, at least...

[jan38]

I know a single Class 60 hauls 30 TEAs, at least...

Thanks USRailFan, got the TEA dlc as well. 30 TEAs, noted and written down.
I think there is a class60 preservation site, but that was a while ago since I've been there and forgot to bookmark it . maybe i can find out there too. back to google.

[Kromaatikse]

There are a number of factors which determine the makeup of a train.

One is of course the haulage capacity of the locomotive - which is not determined by it's horsepower rating, but by a combination of the continuous tractive effort, effective adhesion weight, and the ruling gradients of the lines it is to take. Horsepower only comes into play when a train must be hauled at a particular *speed*. For a long time the biggest horsepower ratings were in passenger locomotives, while the biggest tractive effort ratings were for freight locomotives. Only relatively recently have high-horsepower locomotives become a necessity for efficient freight operation.

Another very important factor is the length of train the line is designed to accommodate. The "saw-by" and "double saw-by" manoeuvres are very rare over here, instead we always fit an entire train into a siding and prove it clear of the mainline before allowing another train to pass. For passenger trains the length of platforms it is due to stop at is important - passengers are not expected to climb up from ground level, or to pay attention to whether there is a platform outside the door before opening it.

Most modern freight trains are "block" trains - made up of many identical or near-identical wagons, travelling directly from one customer to another. Classic example is the "merry go round" trains which link coal-mine and power station, but any type of freight can be like this, up to and including mail. Most heavy-haulage wagons are limited to 60mph in Britain, though some are permitted 75mph when empty.

Container freight is also a very important traffic, operating at relatively high speed (75mph) between container terminals - these trains are usually somewhat longer than coal trains because containers are not so heavy per unit length, but likewise are often hauled by two locomotives (especially electrics, which are usually four-axle each). Container wagons are often a bit special, in that they are formed in permanently-coupled sets - the FSA and FTA wagons available in Railworks are like that, and so must be coupled in mirrored pairs or otherwise appropriately.

An uncommon but important traffic is the nuclear flask. This is usually a very short train, only 1-3 wagons, but hauled by two locomotives as insurance against breakdowns. Traditionally this was done by Class 20s, since they didn't have a gross excess of power in such a configuration and were very reliable. The flask trains always operate between a power station (or exceptionally a naval base) and a processing facility, there being fewer of the latter than the former.

Also very important is to check the country and era that a given wagon operated in. Sometimes this is obvious - the RCH-style wagons used in Britain up to the 1960s were very obviously Victorian in design and much smaller than modern wagons. I see too many scenarios that put German wagons in Britain, though (and not helped by Kuju dumping all their German wagons into the standard default category). Because the German loading gauge is larger than the British one, this would cause a danger of structure collisions on most routes. If you have a strong interest in freight operations, there are a number of wagon packs which greatly expand the variety of British stock available.

[jan38]

I'm not so much a technical person, but what you've mentioned makes sense.
I got various dlc packs including the TEA wagons.
Tractive effort over Horsepower or KW makes sense.
I still have a bit to learn about railroading in general as you might have noticed.
Thanks Kromaatikse for the extra help and more importantly what to look for and not just the raw power of a loc but also tractive effort and or other influences (i didn't even think of tbh.)
thank you

[USRailFan]

Also, while this is not directly related to the Class 60, Class 66-hauled coal trains seem to have 20 HTAs with a single Class 66, or 30-32 HAAs.

[quickthorn]

Also, while this is not directly related to the Class 60, Class 66-hauled coal trains seem to have 20 HTAs with a single Class 66, or 30-32 HAAs.

Yes, that's about how they work near me on power station traffic. 22 or 23 HTAs seem to be a typical consist. HTAs are around 26 tons tare and something over 100 tons gross, if I remember rightly.

[Kromaatikse]

I believe the usual maximum gross weights of modern UK wagons are 45t for two-axle (eg. HAA, TTA) and 102t for bogie wagons (HTA etc). This corresponds to 22.5t and 25.5t per axle. The capacity of these wagons is limited by weight, not volume - and they may sometimes be under-loaded to allow use of a more lightly-laid line (allowing only 20t per axle, for example). Railworks always loads wagons fully or not at all, though.

Don't be fooled by the sparse-looking loading of some bogie wagons. Chances are these carry steel (in ingots, bars or coils) - which is incredibly heavy per unit volume. When loaded (with perhaps half a dozen bars or coils) these will be near the normal gross weight of a bogie wagon.

Random factoid: in the 19th century it was widely believed that a ship made of steel would simply sink, as all ships had been made of wood up to then. But wooden ships still sank quite regularly despite the belief that wood floated - and since you need much less steel than wood to make a viable, waterproof hull, a steel ship actually weighs less overall for the same enclosed volume.

[ttjph]

I've just googled "saw-by" (as an almost-exclusively UK railfan).

Good grief! That's going to put a hole in your timetabling... although admittedly it's probably a bit easier with knuckle couplers than with three-link.

[transadelaide]

I've just googled "saw-by" (as an almost-exclusively UK railfan).

Good grief! That's going to put a hole in your timetabling... although admittedly it's probably a bit easier with knuckle couplers than with three-link.

There's the thing - US freight lines don't run on timetables as UK railfans would understand them.

Things are more confusing in Australia because on some of the long interstate lines (like Adelaide to Perth, the route with the longest stretch of straight track in the world) there is no real need for a timetable as such because you're always running on single track between loops, but then at each end you have the freight trains sharing the routes with commuter trains so they do have to run on time.

Except in extreme situations (perhaps due to one train rescuing a rare failed train) you will never see anything resembling a saw bye manoeuvre on the modern Australian network, simply due to cost. It would be prohibitively expensive to set up some kind of outpost and pay staff to live and work there, and far cheaper to build a new passing loop and install the automatic system that requires no staff other than the train crew to safely operate.

[pancratiossanders]

Why not view YouTube and search for 'class 60' or 'Class 37'? There's a lot of material on there which will give you a real view of what may be in the consist. You may have to scratch around a little bit to find what you want but it'll be there. Of course most will be of current operations but the sort of loadings will not have changed much in recent years.

Good hunting.

Bob

[jan38]

I was a bit afk lately. I would like to thank everyone with all suggestions and also some pointers how to calculate how many wagons one can setup behind a class 60 diesel loc which might still resemble a real life consists of loc+wagons.
And searching on youtube, i will do that most certainly. I have seen already loads of real trains posted by train enthousiasts in the uk or other parts of england/scotland/ireland.. very nice.

Thank you all for your reactions, much appreciated !

Also Kromaatikse thank you for the elaborate explanation and pointers what to look for when choosing the right loc / wagons to be as close as possible to a real life consist and not only look for the raw horse power or kilowatt but also other elements what makes up a strong diesel loc like for instance tractive effort.