NEC - Out August 25th

[Chock]

Hoping they fix the Keystone scenario, which is the only one I have tried thus far. It was good as far as it went and the locomotive and rolling stock is great, rivet counters might disagree, but I'm not vastly familiar with the loco in question, so it was fine to my eyes with good modeling and texture placement. Similarly the route is not one I know at all, so I'm not in a position to comment on its accuracy, but it looks good for all that and there is good eye candy with AI trains en-route, both freight and passenger. Nevertheless, about three quarters of the way through the Keystone run I got an unexplained AI crash/derail (as many others apparently have), which is repeatable and effectively made that scenario 'broken', since the crash ends the scenario at every attempt. Being that this was the first part of the product's content that I tried, it was hardly an auspicious introduction to the thing, so it's currently parked up until they mend it.

Glitches like this need to be ironed out with better beta testing. As payware DLC for Railworks, it's not alone in this, there are one or two Railworks DLC products which feature glitches and bugs that prevent completion of content. I could more easily accept such a state of affairs for freebie stuff, but when one asks money for something, it should at least be of a merchantable quality from the standpoint of 'doing what it says on the tin' so to speak; that concept of 'merchantable quality' incidentally, is a trading law in the UK for most things one wants to sell (see the Sale of Good and Services Act for more info), and whilst not all of the Act applies to software, I still think some QA work is in order here on the part of the developers, since adherence to that Act might not be required in law, but it certainly should be required in spirit and indeed from the perspective of appearing entirely competent as a developer. More critically for the developer, such glitches needlessly let down what is generally an extremely slick and polished product overall, and in the case of US Railworks users and indeed potential users, the NEC route is one that has been the subject of a good deal of anticipation. So it needs to perform well in effectively being a shop window for prospective US customers of Railworks, many of who will have to be pried away from MSTS given that it is the biggie train sim for US users, in spite of its age, owing to the large amount of US content there is for it, although there can be little doubt that the PRR route that is on the way in the forthcoming upgrade will be a bigger part of making that happen given that it has the potential for a vast array of railroads and scenarios from various time periods.

I'm sure the developers will get around to ironing this NEC scenario glitch out, so this is not a major concern for me, although given the above it should certainly be a concern for the developers if they hope to woo more US train simmers, as appears to be the plan, but on the whole I think the NEC route is going to end up being a worthy addition to the DLC one can get for Railworks, so I wouldn't let this minor issue put you off checking it out, as it may indeed (and probably will) be fixed by the time you read this.

Al

[Darpor]

Do I or don't I, do I or don't I. Come on chaps, should I go for it now or not?

[ihavenonamenoreallyidont]

Do I or don't I, do I or don't I. Come on chaps, should I go for it now or not?

I'd wait for a nice sale, Darren.

[ihavenonamenoreallyidont]

Glitches like this need to be ironed out with better beta testing. As payware DLC for Railworks, it's not alone in this, there are one or two Railworks DLC products which feature glitches and bugs that prevent completion of content. I could more easily accept such a state of affairs for freebie stuff, but when one asks money for something, it should at least be of a merchantable quality[...]

Absolutely agree. Another example: I believe Polmadie Hop, from WCML North, is still not possible to complete as intended. It's not a case of sorting something minor; it's a demonstrably broken product.

[msey0002]

Well that's it, I relent...I'll wait for the sale for NEC or see if there would be a nice bundle with Acela and Genesis

[Chock]

Do I or don't I, do I or don't I. Come on chaps, should I go for it now or not?

Like everything else, it depends on how badly you want it. You should bear in mind that there may end up being an Acela add-on which combines with this at some point, so if you are simply 'ticking boxes' or being a completist in considering buying it, then you might want to wait and see if that happens. If on the other hand you like US stuff, then go for it. Although passenger stuff in the US is not really my interest where Yank trains are concerned, I still considered it worth picking up for the route itself, as if nothing else it is novel to have a pantograph on a US loco (expect to see the PRR GG1 show up at some point). It's a big route for 20 quid with some iconic stations, so you can't fault the value on that score, especially when there's a loco and some carriages thrown in as well, worth considering too is the fact that this one probably has some RW3 features lined up for it, since it is a newish route, built when they may have been aware of best practices to make incorporating that stuff easier.

Al

[johnmckenzie]

I believe Polmadie Hop, from WCML North, is still not possible to complete as intended

It is, you know - but only if you get a hurry up and don't dawdle!

[transadelaide]

... I could more easily accept such a state of affairs for freebie stuff, but when one asks money for something, it should at least be of a merchantable quality from the standpoint of 'doing what it says on the tin' so to speak; that concept of 'merchantable quality' incidentally, is a trading law in the UK for most things one wants to sell (see the Sale of Good and Services Act for more info), and whilst not all of the Act applies to software, I still think some QA work is in order here on the part of the developers, since adherence to that Act might not be required in law, but it certainly should be required in spirit and indeed from the perspective of appearing entirely competent as a developer. ...

Absolutely agree. Another example: I believe Polmadie Hop, from WCML North, is still not possible to complete as intended. It's not a case of sorting something minor; it's a demonstrably broken product.

An important point regarding whether trading laws apply is actually what is required for businesses in King County, Washington (state) rather than the UK or any other place on earth as this is where you agree (without a gun at your head) the sale is taking place whenever you buy RS.com DLC items. If this doesn't ring a bell then you should start reading contracts before agreeing to them.

I wouldn't regard one or two scenarios of a route/stock pack as being decent cause for a refund, the scenarios are really just there as an example showing off just a little bit of the pack's capabilities. Some more honest labelling of scenarios should be used maybe - "with bonus scenarios" would be better, since when you buy a route you get a route. Of course of a scenario pack or reskin/scenario pack would be a different matter, if an AP scenario pack had one broken one that's roughly 1/6 of the pack not working.

[Darpor]

Like everything else, it depends on how badly you want it. You should bear in mind that there may end up being an Acela add-on which combines with this at some point, so if you are simply 'ticking boxes' or being a completist in considering buying it, then you might want to wait and see if that happens. If on the other hand you like US stuff, then go for it. Although passenger stuff in the US is not really my interest where Yank trains are concerned, I still considered it worth picking up for the route itself, as if nothing else it is novel to have a pantograph on a US loco (expect to see the PRR GG1 show up at some point). It's a big route for 20 quid with some iconic stations, so you can't fault the value on that score, especially when there's a loco and some carriages thrown in as well, worth considering too is the fact that this one probably has some RW3 features lined up for it, since it is a newish route, built when they may have been aware of best practices to make incorporating that stuff easier.

Al

Thanks Al

It's not that I have a real interest or like of US stuff, its more from the nostalgic point of view and the original use of the route (or part of) in MSTS. As that is where it all started, I have been following development of the route and have been looking forward to it. I'll wait and see, I would rather have the Acela set but may well give in.

[Marleyman]

it's a demonstrably broken product.

No it is not, it has one broken scenario that I can see, otherwise the route looks great and plays just as well. If it did not load, or markers were missing preventing basic scenario design or the station assets were colliding with trains (which has happened with some platforms on freeware routes) then I would agree it was a demonstrably broken product.

To be honest if you don't have it that is quite a wild statement. A few minor issues is all this has wrong and since it is from RS direct, it will be fixed. I certainly trust them.

[ihavenonamenoreallyidont]

To be fair, I said that, not Chock.

I do own the product, incidentally, although I am not sure why that's important. That particular scenario - johnmckenzie's post notwithstanding (I must drive more quickly!) - is demonstrably broken. Hardly a wild statement.

That aside, it's been months since release. Months. Reasonable timeframes are in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

[SuperTux]

Do I or don't I, do I or don't I. Come on chaps, should I go for it now or not?

In the same boat here, we have two new routes coming with RW3 one of which seems to be the Pennsylvania Railroad (set in the 50's?) and a UK route which still seems to be unknown. NEC does look good and I am sure once the Acela and RW3 goes live it will look magnificent.

Matt
PS Still undecided lol.

[pjt1974]

Decided to buy, nicely impressed although I was slightly disappointed not to hear Rocky shout 'Adrian!!!!' when I was leaving Philly.

[Chock]

Just to clarify on what I was referring to about some Railworks products still needing elements fixing, an example of that I was thinking of would be the 'Pick 'n Mix' career scenario with the little BR shunter. Now that genuinely is broken. I think such elements are as important as the route itself, since the route is the scenery, but the scenarios are 'the game' and thus they are more than mere 'bonuses'. Here you can see a couple of shots which demonstrate one such broken game element:

Here is the global ranking scoreboard for the aforementioned Pick 'n' Mix, with nobody having pulled it off successfully according to this list:



Here's why they haven't managed it, you can see I have over four minutes to spare to simply drive to the 'finish line' of the scenario in order to complete it, which can be done easily, but if I do that I still get a 'fail' as I assume everyone else does looking at that scoreboard:



This is the sort of thing I was referring to when I wrote that there are elements which need fixing.

Al

[Darpor]

Now that genuinely is broken. I think such elements are as important as the route itself, since the route is the scenery, but the scenarios are 'the game' and thus they are more than mere 'bonuses'.

Al

Not going to wade into the whole argument of how important to the package scenarios are, and what value they hold. However, some vendors sell a product and state that the scenarios are either a free addition, or are bonus content. I believe they will all go that way in the future.