Undrivable Locomotives

[simuk]

Neither do I want to hear stupid pings every minute as I drive along admiring the scenery, then the train grind to an emergency halt every few minutes because I did not touch some control or other.

I, like I suspect many others just like to drive the train through the countryside like I used to do with the earlier Class 47s etc, admiring the view and not actually trying to be an engine driver. Otherwise why is there a View 5 from the passenger carriages? Or the outside views like 2 and 4, you can't use these because you can't hear the pings and everything screams to a halt.

Mike, I'm a bit confused - in the first part of your quote above you've said "Neither do I want to hear stupid pings every minute as I drive along admiring the scenery", but then in the second part said "outside views like 2 and 4, you can't use these because you can't hear the pings and everything screams to a halt".

Are you wanting no pings/alarms on the external views, or wanting to be able to hear them so as you can acknowledge them and the train can continue on it's journey rather than coming to the sudden stop?

Thanks,

Simon
Just Trains
http://www.justtrains.net

[johny]

Cant you use the simple controls?

Not when it is specifically expert mode only.

John

[Padsterdood]

I've heard it all now. Someone complaining that a locomotive is too realistic!

Driving steam engines in Railworks really isn't that hard. All you do is release the brakes, allow pressure to build up and then open the regulator. Open the cylinder cocks (C) for a few seconds and then close again. Once the train gets going reduce the cutoff on the reverser to 75% or less and you're away. Dead easy! (in Railworks at least. Wouldn't like to try it for real!)

You can still do all this and admire the scenery occasionally by pressing 4. Of course, if you do this on a line with AWS ramps then you are asking for trouble!

Best wishes,
Padster

[stuart666]

But ultimately the community were asking for more realistic steam locomotives. Then a good friend of mine comes out with as realistic a locomotive as he could create, then people start asking for an easy version.

Stuart,

I'm sure there are many of us who really appreciate the effort that went into making the 56xx realistic. Please don't get downhearted because there are a few who don't want to use their engines in that way.

Ruth

No I understand that Ruth, and I know there are masses who appreciate what was done with it. To be honest Its not me who put heart and soul into it, over 95percent of the work on it is Petes. I just played with the boiler and physics to get it to behave something like the real thing. I cant help but be a little downhearted on his behalf after seeing the work he put into it.

Its just disappointing that something that was so clearly marketed as a complicated locomotive to drive gets fielded, then people want to miss out on the majority of the work put into it by reducing it to the level of previously fielded machines. Im still amazed people drive with autofireman. It pretty much encourages anyone not to put the extra work in. Im sure the majority dont feel this way, and I dont even criticize those who do want simplified machines. I just find it increasingly hard to see what people want from Railworks to be honest. One minute its realism, the next easy to drive. These are no easy things to reconcile in any product. Indeed Im not really sure one should try.

I think we have been down the road of easy and advanced controls, and there is little further I can add to the discussion. Suffice to say nobody asked Leonardo for a cut down version of the Mona Lisa, did they?

[stephenholmes]

Good afternoon everyone
Stuart I think what some users are saying is they just want to have a quiet life and use simple controls
Yes I know there are users that want the most difficult loco they can get their hands on
It is a double edged sword but I feel could be addressed with switching to simple or expert
I don't think Mike or anyone else that wants an easy to drive loco are being derogatory
Kind regards Stephen

[holzroller]

Personally I want to see realistic driving in railworks, and am grateful to those who try to provide it. Part of the reason for me is nostalgia, for the time when I drove trains for real. I do drive on the outside view, but generally only with locos like the 47 where the cab doesn't provide a realistic experience for me after many hours of driving the real thing, or when shunting, as there is no man on the ground to guide you. The problem is that many people have different expectations from railworks and it tries to cover these with varying success. If I just want to see trains running I spend time with my models or get out a DVD. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.

[johnmckenzie]

I cant help but be a little downhearted

Please don't be - It's a good thing that people spend a lot of time creating such a great little loco. Don't listen to the (few) complaining voices, it is clear to anyone from RW's homepage that the 56xx addon is more complicated to drive, nothing is being misrepresented and there is doubtless a market for both complex AND simple to drive addons.

The effort made to create better realism has its own reward - the satisfaction of the completed product itself. Thank you!

[transadelaide]

I do appreciate the efforts of those people who model the more intricate facets of driving each loco or multiple unit. With RailWorks clearly being focused towards being a driving simulator this is a must.

Having said that, the future viability of the platform depends heavily on bringing in new users as the pool of existing users will not be enough to fund development of new features. For that reason I think that simple mode does need to be enabled for every payware item so that the newer users and helicopter drivers can still get something out of the experience before graduating to the full controls. It would be good if addons with no simple mode functionality did have that disclosed on the Steam Store page so the helicopter drivers know that it will not work for them.

[FrankJ]

I cant help but be a little downhearted

Please don't be - It's a good thing that people spend a lot of time creating such a great little loco. Don't listen to the (few) complaining voices, it is clear to anyone from RW's homepage that the 61xx addon is more complicated to drive, nothing is being misrepresented and there is doubtless a market for both complex AND simple to drive addons.

The effort made to create better realism has its own reward - the satisfaction of the completed product itself. Thank you!

You should be downhearted but that was not the issue - the issue was that some of us require the ability to drive with simple controles if we want to it is not a criticism of the model or the fine work that has gone into it.

Frank

[stuart666]

Good afternoon everyone
Stuart I think what some users are saying is they just want to have a quiet life and use simple controls
Yes I know there are users that want the most difficult loco they can get their hands on
It is a double edged sword but I feel could be addressed with switching to simple or expert
I don't think Mike or anyone else that wants an easy to drive loco are being derogatory
Kind regards Stephen

No I know they dont mean that, and I personally wouldnt take it as such.I respect what Mike and John have to say, truly I do. its just in products such as flight sims addons for FSX, nobody expects a hard and light version of the same product, which generally speaking is very hard to achieve anyway, and flies in the face of what a flight sim is supposed to achieve.(yes you can turn off various options and faults in the core program to some extent. But Railworks is generally not optimised in that direction) A train sim is perceived to be different, and Im not sure quite why. After all, nobody complained the Russian Diesel locomotive was difficult to kickstart when it was released a few months back. THAT I found entirely comparable to some of the Russian addons for FSX, and I found it an enjoyable challenge.

I understand that different people want different things from Railworks. Quite understandable. But I dont think it entirely realistic to expect everyone is going to have assets made exactly to their own requirements. Having an 'easy' 56xx was directly contrary to what it was supposed to achieve. Absolutely no disrespect to anyone here in saying I think an easy version of it would be missing the point of it entirely.

Maybe rather than discussing released products, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss what we DO want with Railworks DLC. Because the more I read on the site, there seems to be little if any agreement on the way people want things to go.

[spikeyorks]

Personally I would like to do both (simple and complicated).

(A) I like to drive along from an outside view looking at the scenery and seeing the train in the landscape and also

(B) I like to drive the same scenario sitting in the cab with lots of controls and trying and see if I can "drive the blooming thing correctly".

I find both aspects of the sim rewarding and, if it is possible to use "Simple" and "Expert" to achieve these two personal aims then I, for one, will be a very happy bunny.

I have just bought the 56xx myself and will now go and have a drive in it. Somehow I think it will be more like this mind

Driving steam engines in Railworks really isn't that hard. All you do is release the brakes, allow pressure to build up and then open the regulator. Open the cylinder cocks (C) for a few seconds and then close again. Once the train gets going reduce the cutoff on the reverser to 75% or less and you're away. Dead easy!

So it's "dead easy" for me.............I hope !!!

Regards

[RW2011]

Personally i want realism, but i understand that some users just want to play trains and not run their locos in a close to proto manner.
My own view is that the 5600 set up is the way to go for future steam releases. Give me a 2800 and a 1000 loco add on, with the same realism and i will be in heaven.

[stuart666]

Personally i want realism, but i understand that some users just want to play trains and not run their locos in a close to proto manner.
My own view is that the 5600 set up is the way to go for future steam releases. Give me a 2800 and a 1000 loco add on, with the same realism and i will be in heaven.

Id certainly pay good money for a County. Unfortunately its probably one of those GWR locomotives that DLC producers will always overlook. A shame really, considering the progress going into the new build at Didcot.

[RW2011]

Yup the Hawksworth County, is my particular GWR\WR steam loco of choice, Stuart.
Vastly under rated and overlooked.

[transadelaide]

Id certainly pay good money for a County. Unfortunately its probably one of those GWR locomotives that DLC producers will always overlook. A shame really, considering the progress going into the new build at Didcot.

That might actually make it the perfect target for a DLC pack when the replica gets closer to completion, just like they did with the Tornado pack and I am sure they will do if the new Gresley P2 gets built.