Atomic Systems

Railworks, then, now, the community as a whole, with diversity and change and as time has gone along alot has come and gone and alot has changed and been added since the early days. As a simulator for locomotive power it has progressed a great deal since its first outing in 2009 and its younger generation, Railsimulator. With many a change by patches and the introduction of a steady flow of downloadable content for Railworks the scope of what can be established for a simulator session has changed since the first days.

Be it steamer, diesel, electric, narrow guage or anything inbetween, in one form or another it has been tried and some cases quite well represented, to a wider audience if one were to look back what is available now for the user is vastly more than it was back in 2009 and for all intents and purposes one can download or purchase a suitable rolling stock or route for them to enjoy for however long they wish to devout to the simulator. One could make the point that indeed British themed railways has taken centre stage for quite some time but with the developers homebase and also the general popularity its not to surprising to see such things. Granted since the interception of the steady flow of DLC more than just UK based content has become available and now you can get a decent representation for german and US based areas, era and rolling stock and as interest builds and the market holes are seen this will be expanded.

Be it shunting, passenger workings, freight operation or just a leisurable ride along the tracks its now quite easy for anyone to get into Railworks and just have a session to themselves and enjoy the simulator for what it is. Naturally Railworks as a product isn't perfect, nore is any kind of PC software and hitches and glitches aswell as problems in regards to performance have been a focus point over the past couple of months. This to a certain extent is acknowledged by the developers and promises have been made, remains to be seen on how much can be done in the current code but optimism is a good stand point when considering computer software regardless of what its trying to do or what you want it to do.

As Railworks progressed, so did the community, abeit sometimes negative and mostly positive and now there is a whole slew of 3rd party developers aswell as well informed individuals who now participate in discusssions aswell as add pointers to the many different parts of Railworks. But I will step on the icy path of the negativity and bring to light what I see developing once again. While the community is developing and is relatively positively as of late there is a sigificant rise in sniping and negativity which arises from addons or discussions, we unfortunately had this situation develop last year and heavy moderation had to be taken.

I would like to appeal to the community that we move for a air of change, one which airs more on the side of positive and furthers Railworks and the community as a whole, moderation can only be taken so far and the moderators of UKtrainsim do have a large task to keep everything civil and for the most part do a good job, but there is many occasions when moderation cannot simply solve the underlining niggles and griping and that is where it comes down to community members to conduct themselves in a manner which would be the same as you do in real life.

It is unfortunate in a internet generation that the idea that the internet gives you anoymous status, thus it further gives you right to say what you like or how you like, but truth be told at the end of the day, the person you are responding to in a post is a human being, someone just like yourself with the same passion and hobby for everything to do with the railways. It would seem sometimes people can forget this, be it young or old, we are civilised people and thus, while this is the internet, we should treat each other just like we would people we meet in our day to day encounters.

So with that aside were now in 2011, there has been a fair few new releases for this year and a few big routes to come aswell as locomotive stock, there is even core changes on the horizon (as much as people would like to deny that ), aswell as 3rd party developers pushing the boundries of what can and cannot be done in Railworks.

Opinions are valid for anyone who wishes to express themselves to the community and this should not change, but keep in mind when we go to type our opinions we still need to keep it civil, we all have a great deal of passion but we must also keep that passion at a standard which is deemed acceptable also.

With this all being said, I like to thank UKtrainsim for allowing us to have a place to come together and discuss the many different topics, addons, routes and new innovations and changes which have come out and are due to come out, I also wish to thank the community, 3rd party developers, RS.com and all there staff aswell as the the masses of passionate people we have for the railways, if it wasn't for everyone, we wouldn't have what we have here today.


Note: The intention of this post is to keep a civil tone, a topic of discussion for what has been done, to offer thanks and express your own opinions. I do not mind negative comments being posted to my comments above, but please assure to keep to the forum guidelines aswell as a civil tone, if the thread proves to foster sniping and the bad side of what has been seen on the forums I respectfully ask the moderators to close the topic and that be the end of it. The aim is to foster abit of community spirit, so lets keep it in that area, thanks.

It's a bit of a phenomenum this Railworks lark! I myself have been guilty of getting involved in a few heated scrapes on here but I've also heaped praise on many more occasions too.

Most of us like to moan and whinge (it's a British trait after all!) but underneath it all there is a common love of the simulator. We mustn't lose sight of that fact, the day this site goes quiet is the day to start worrying because it will mean the sim is dead. There is immense demand out there for this sim to flourish and get better and often this manifests itself as heated debate but it's not something to fear or despise, it's perfectly normal and shows the hobby is healthy and alive! Quite often when things get heated on here then the mods become twitchy and start shutting threads down at the drop of a hat, this is usually not needed and serves only to let tensions build up and spill over onto other discussions. If things descend into personal attacks or insults / threats etc then that's different but shutting down nothing more than heated debate is counter-productive. I've just read the now locked AP19 thread and there is nothing on there that is offensive or otherwise yet a really cutting edge discussion has been nailed in mid-flow, not necessary.

Another point to bear in mind is that constructive critisism, feedback, debate and argument is what drives continuous improvement. If nobody challenged the norm or expected better then there would be no growth and no pushing the boundaries like we are starting to see with some new releases. Also this forum is a marketing persons dream!! You can get live and direct feedback for all your products both positive and negative which ultimately will shape the future of this simulator and anything that follows it. It should be encouraged not discouraged and locked.

Some very good points well put! I'd like to echo Crumplezones thanks to the community, UKTS, RS.com and all of the 3rd party developers. Without them RW wouldn't be half the product it is today.

I'd also like to clarify where I stand regards the 'other thread' that was closed down. I am not against payware, indeed I encourage it, in all its forms and have purchased great quantities of it and will continue to do so as long as the standards remain high. I Just feel that recent releases have made me feel ultra cautious about where my money goes in future and would like to ask payware developers to please keep in mind the value for money aspect of their products.

Could agree more with you Crumplezone.
Whilst I'm a believer of folks being able to express thier own opinions, be it positive or negative, I don't like the over the top, looking for an argument replies.
If I post one opinion and somebody disagrees with it, well that's the way of the world. No amount of sniping and argument will change mine or the other persons point of view. Leave it upto the reader of the thread to make thier own opinion of who's right and who's wrong and which advice to take or not as the case maybe.

Example, I posted on the AP19 thread that I'd be buying the addon, Vern makes his case at how he doesn't think it's worth the money, fine. I respect Vern for his point of view, for the work he's created and the time he put in testing for me. Just because he holds a different point of view to mine on this doesn't mean I won't seek his advice or time in the future and I'm pretty sure the reverse is true.
TheTazman posted a brilliant video over on this screenshot thread http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... a&start=30 and I think it rings true for most of the petty arguments that happen on this forum. It also happens to be one of my favourite Python sketches.

Keep it real, give thanks where thanks is due, moan if you have to but just understand that others may have a different view on things and we'll all get along fine.

I think something that tends to get lost - oddly, given this site being what it is - is that just because something is free, doesn't mean it isn't any good. It's the inverse view of "well, if it was any good they'd be asking money for it", but that's a slightly more negative phrase I'd rather not consider long. What I would like to do is to encourage people to explore and get excited by good freeware in the same way that they do for payware. Payware is naturally hyped up because the producers want to make the most profit from it as they can... no freeware author needs to do that, so generally they don't because all the extra publicity would do is boost their ego, and what's the point in that?

So, go find something free from the library here or elsewhere that stirs your emotions a little, come back here and tell people about it.

Here is a post I made on RW-trainsim.co.uk in the "Grinds my gears" section

The current state of the railworks addons is really grinding my gears
First, we have the Edinburgh to Glasgow debacle with 'not offering discount for class 170 owners'. Then I sent RSC en Thomson an e-mail about it and neither responded. I'm sure they are all very busy and that sort of stuf.......
Then, the price of SAD's route, paying €25,00 for a route isn't reasonable in my opinion, the Germans overprice anything and now the British seem to follow......

All these things combined sometimes just make me want to wander off and do other things with my time and money. It is starting to look like almost all publishers/developers are just in the game for the profit, and not trying to make this game work

RailWorks is still a rather unknown game, with a small playerbase. The developers indeed have their expenses, I understand that, but well, should I even worry about it? Is there is a difference to make? I tried my best at making things for this game, for free.

The current state of things is making me unhappy, and I don't know how long I can keep up...

What more is there to say? Surely no publisher is going to listen to the wining of one user, they can't be bothered. Is there use in building routes, trains, scenarios and other things?


It just all seems useless, the more we work to make this game work, the more money the publishers earn. Yes they are businesses and have to earn money never mind, it won't make a difference

All I can say is that I am unhappy and don't know for how long I want to remain unhappy. If that means putting away the game, then that's what I have to do

I've seen freeware get the same treatment as payware many times.

Freeware released: Here is a free train I spent 700+hrs of my free time on.

Example comment I have seen: Nice, thanks! But are you going to do A-B-C variants of it?? And the cylinder cocks don't emit steam? You fixing that???

I just saw Michael Stephens release some freeware rolling stock WITH a paintkit and the first post was a quick "nice" immediately followed by if he's making other paint variants of it.

The freeware vs payware thing is as riddled with opinion as anything else in this game.

For example, I read a thread on here the other day that was titled "??? freeware route - The greatest route ever made for Railworks!!"

"Flippin eck", thought I, "better than WCML? better than E&G? better than Bristol to Exeter? I've missed a trick here, better get this downloaded asap"!! Suffice to say that I had been baited big time and spent the rest of the evening uninstalling said route. Now that's not to knock the creator who is undoubtedly very talented but some person had made a very misleading post based on their personal opinion when quite clearly the route in question was nowhere near on par with commercial routes nor was it intended to be.

Equally with scenario packs, I have bought almost every AP scenario pack and continue to do so, they are very good and worth a fiver in my opinion. However a few weeks ago some amazing chap released a free BR blue era senario pack for the Falmouth Branch and it rapidly became my favourite scenario pack ever! (for a while anyway).

Some things you pay for, some you get free, take the rough with the smooth. One observation though, I've never yet bought anything for Railworks and thought "that was a waste of money", never. All payware I've bought has been worth it. The same can't be said for freeware where the quality varies massively but then that's part of the deal, you can't moan if it's free, just uninstall if it's not to your high standards! Some freeware, particularly scenarios, are right up there with their best payware cousins and those rare gems my friends are a real treat we should all be grateful for.

jimmyshand wrote: Some freeware, particularly scenarios, are right up there with their best payware cousins and those rare gems my friends are a real treat we should all be grateful for.

Which ones? start a thread about them! get lots of users going "wow", and looking forward to the creator's next release. That's what happens with payware...

My "best" RW route is still Wales & Borders, even though it's not even finished, but I make a point of talking it up when I can. Hopefully one day Shane will get round to working on it again.

The freeware vs payware situation is somewhat long established throughout the entire computer gaming industry, its more familarly known as mods for FPS and RTS games and its a similar situation in regards to comments afterward. Thanks is normally given, appreciation and in general maybe some tribute videos/screenshots will be created and I think that is the nature of how free based releases will be looked upon.

Its not to say that freeware is under appreciated by the community, I don't think thats entirely true, some cases yes there maybe individuals who feel the need to nitpick or point out problems but there is alot who will be quite happy with what they downloaded. Also in that same sense it can be encouraging and discouraging if there is and isn't any comments, some developers of freeware might feel in the sense that no complaints or comments is a good thing, while others may feel discouraged by the lack of comments.

What I would say in that situation is try to not take things to heart, there is alot of labour of love for freeware when you create something for the first time or after multiple releases also. Its the one thing which I have noticed with alot of the 3rd party payware developers is they are willing to take critism and comments, as do even RS.com, I think the same can be applied to freeware, if a developer is willing to accept the comments leveled against the creations then in the long run it ends up furthering your own work and can only improve yourself by comments.

Prices are always also going to be a touchy subject for addons and in general simulator addons over the years across the entire genre of simulators can be quite expensive, one only has to take a moment to look at the flight simulator market to see the prices, and in one sense I think were quite lucky in that aspect that railwork addons, in comparisement are cheaper. It can be unfortunate, yes even dissapointing when a route comes out with a pre existing locomotive already in addon format and not see any discount, but in another sense we shouldn't always expect discounts on follow up products and from a business standpoint its not always feasible. In the end people still have the right to express displeasure on a difference in pricing but its fundementally something we also have to accept to a certain point and one can always vote with your pocket and not buy, and on this topic lets not be to negative and derail from the discussion at hand as talk about pricing of DLCs is not solely a sore point for exclusive to Railworks, it expands other games to.

Back to the freeware topic, I can only recommend some of the latest routes releases as freeware like Retro's central route and in the past Wales and borders for examples of excellent freeware routes, likewise in locomotive stock Karma and Kev have release wagon reskins, new locomotives (GWR steamers for example are quite well represented in freeware and Falmouth GWR, also another freeware release benefits greatly from them) and the likes of Matt who has released freeware steam sound packs to further enchance the older steamers which were available to us in Railworks. This is merely a small example of what is out there and available and everyone should be encouraged to check what there is available to further enchance there Railworks experience, aswell as add to payware stock and routes to get more of a engaging railway experience.

I'm quite interested to see other peoples opinions and thoughts in general, so lets keep this going and as civil as possible, the seasons have changed, the weather is getting better, so its time for some engaging community discussions.

The thing about freeware is the person has made it for themselfs first and foremost and therefore they are not worried too much if it's what other people want. Some of us might think £5 for what Rich does is not good vaule for money but for those that can not make their own or just do not want to spend hours making one then it's worth it. But there are now others jumping on the bandwagon and making scenario packs for money and this is where it could get silly as it might make those that still make them for free think hang on if everyone else is making money from them why not me.

Merlin75 wrote: But there are now others jumping on the bandwagon and making scenario packs for money and this is where it could get silly as it might make those that still make them for free think hang on if everyone else is making money from them why not me.

Is that the Vulcan Productions scenarios?

If so, I am following with interest as it seems fantastic value for money. £3.99 for 10 scenarios, countless reskins included with many created specifically for the pack. They are also releasing a scenario from the pack for free, so you can see what you are getting beforehand. I think it's an interesting deal.

Of course, this is where the difference starts, what I see as value for money is not necessarily what you see and vice versa. However, I don't see it as jumping on the bandwagon as such, they are merely responding to a market which appears to be there, coupled with the fact that the authors have released waves and waves of freeware content, I don't see an issue with it. Time will tell on whether they can make a success of it but if thats the pricing and content plan they are going to stick to, it could work.

Speaking of bandwagons, it's far too easy to get on one. I have now released something in the order of 30 scenarios and intend to keep doing so as freeware. Whether these can be up to payware standard, thats entirely up to the end user on how much enjoyment they receive. It's funny though, as I have had comments/PM's/feedback forms/emails from users telling me "That was good, I would have happily paid for it" or "Will you do xxx scenarios, I would pay for a pack" etc etc, it's easy to think hold on, there is money to be made here. However, I get enough grief as it is and can do without more.

I'll keep on releasing freeware scenarios, routes, scenery, reskins or whatever else I manage to create. The best part about life is the choice we then have, you can choose to download mine, or go pay for some, it's entirely fine, both can co-exist together, we just need to stop arguing about it.

I don't mind if people want to charge for packs like this. And the packs from Vulcan seem like they are going to be amazing value for money but then again so are the packs that Rich sells in my view. I just don't want to see people thinking if so & so can make money from it then so can I and everyone thinking they should charge for everything although i'm sure that won't happen.

Keep making them Darren I do enjoy driving the ones made by you

A very quick point of view from a someone who is a UKTS moderator (all be it for not that long).

The crux of the situation for me is that we all like different things and we all have different opinions on what is good, bad, overpriced or a bargain. The problem is that all too often a post is made that is... lets say blunt and not that constructive. Now of course the poster is allowed to have their views and many will argue that they should be allowed to post them where they like. However a blunt and non-constructive post usually results in a flame war that within a few hours escalates into moderator action being needed.

I operate on the policy of: "If I have a complaint or something negative to say then I will be as constructive as possible and offer advice at how it may be resolved. If I can't do that then I keep quiet." Negative comments in them selves are not bad. It is all down to how you put it down in writing. Making a constructive negative comment is much harder than posting a quick "I think it is too pricey" or similar. Over simplified examples I realise but I hope you see what I am saying.

When I signed up for being a moderator I thought it would be interesting and not take too much of my time. Well it certainly is interesting but the time it takes to deal with even a small moderation task is often much longer than I spend following threads I want to read.

Quick example. A post is removed for overstepping the mark a little. Post has to be moved (not deleted) to an archive. Subsequent posts have to be checked for references to the post. A PM is needed to the author of the post to warn /explain what has happened. If any other posts had to be removed/edited for referencing the original post the authors need to receive PM's explaining why. All too often people do not agree with our actions and argue the case privately (via PM) or publicly which results in even more logging of messages and discussion amongst moderators to confirm no mistake has been made. If any of theses stages are missed then people complain about why x y or z was done because we have not notified them (which is understandable). Yet the whole process can take 30 or 40 minutes just to deal with one minor situation.

Now don't get me wrong I am not having a moan just giving a little insight into the time and thought it takes to moderate UKTS. And don't get me started on members who always post within the rules but who repeatedly stir up trouble. How do we handle that situation. There is no specific post to discuss with them that breaks the rules but overall their behaviour does not add to the community spirit but detract from it.

I am NOT singling out any particular members I am trying to give examples of how hard it can be to keep things ticking along nicely here on UKTS.

I doubt members would believe how much discussion amongst the moderators goes on about everything from deleting posts to how we can encourage members to behave in a positive way towards the community.

If I could make all members do just one thing then it would be the following:
If you can't make a positive comment then make darn sure that a negative one is polite, reasoned, understanding of other viewpoints and constructive. Otherwise keep quiet

I can't blame anyone for jumping on the payware wagon atm. The globe is overall still in a poor economic state with no sign of where it's heading. Capitalism is a wonderful thing. People have stopped taking vacations, buying high end items they don't necessarily need. Doesn't mean they are poor, just spending the occasional $6 - $30 for whatever item and get endless hours of enjoyment in return is a small dime in the bucket as to the $4,000+ they can't afford to take a week long trip to an island resort this year, last year, next year. It's a gold rush right now in Railworks land. People are seeing potential green everywhere and want a piece of the pie as it's an appealing proposition and see it as way to help their own financial situations. Those who stand out and give value for money will come out unscathed. Those putting `just barely enough' effort into it, inflating prices to pad their wallet will be gone as quickly as they came. Eventually the market will flood itself, most of the gold gone, and only those standing on strong foundations, morals, and long term commitments will be serving the community long into the future.