IOW Network V4

[mbtech22]

Norman,
I am surprised and sorry the hear that you are experiencing a significant reduction in frame rate due to the change in track. As the person who designed and installed the new track, I can say that the new IOW network track is built in a similar manner to the RSDL track used in the earlier versions of IOW Network. It was constructed using the basic instructions contained in the original RS documents, presumably this is the same method RS used for their track. Both methods use a basic "extrusion" of rails and ballast on which 3D sleepers are over-laid. The two versions should have similar number of "polys". I can understand that you may have experienced a slowing at fully rendered pointwork, as I made a new model replacing the default point motor with an animated mechanical facing point lock. The rest of the pointwork is constructed in accordance with the RSDL instructions and is formed by the game engine, so this part again should be similar to the previous version.
The slowing you are experiencing approaching Newport from Carrisbrooke is possibly due to the busy scenery around Newport and also Hunny Hill / Towngate viaduct which you run over as you approach Newport. This model is fairly detailed but does have LODs, so you could try turning down your detail level and see if that speeds things up.
I appreciate your comment regarding the track texture and if any one knows how to adjust this in 3D Canvas, please let me know, as adjusting the various texture settings does not appear to make much difference in the end game.
As you no doubt appreciate most models are a trade off between frame-rate and detail. One of the problems with RS and RW is that now people expect detailed models and the technology is available to deliver them. However, when there are significant numbers of these detailed models it does affect game performance. The issue with the Isle of Wight Network is that we set out to make it as detailed and accurate as possible. With train speeds not exceeding 40mph (steam) or 45mph (electric) it was expected that frame rates could be lower without experiencing significant stutter and this would allow more detail to be included. It looks like we may need to take a look at the amount of detail we include in future and look at simplifying Newport's buildings. Although, personally I would be reluctant to do this, unless others are also experiencing the issues to the extent that it is spoiling their appreciation of our work.
No doubt, there will be discussions with Ian and the other Team members on this issue.
Regards
Mark Brinton

[clockmaker]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your comments.

Firstly let me say that I am not conversant with 3D drawing so while I understand the general gist of your reply with regard to the new track I don't understand the details. I am just reporting what I get with my hardware. I had hoped that by now there would be some other replies, either confirming the problems that I have or not.

I have tried turning down the detail level but do not get a significant increase in frame rate even with a detail setting of 1 at which point much of the scenery has gone. Going to a setting of 8 gives loss of important detail ie. some signal posts eg ' mbsr 28fts latpost ' at 51.36961 -2.37457. One of yours I believe.

I agree that around the approaches to Newport scenery is likely to have an effect but even that, in my opinion, does not account for the significant reduction in fps I am getting.

Pointwork does not seem to contribute any significant change in fps. In fact sound, when going over the viaduct and a nearby road bridge on the way from Carisbrooke to Newport, seems to give more of a reduction but it is difficult to separated the various causes.

I understand that there is bound to be a trade off between fps and highly detailed scenery. However I can get an fps of about 40 in the Glasgow region of the WCML which also seems highly detailed, though I am driving a diesel loco rather than steam.

Your comments about the effect of speed on fps do not seem to apply in my case, slowing right down or breaking the speed limits seems to have little effect on the fps.

I would like to carry out further checks and will let you have the results, if significant, either on this forum or by a PM.

Norman

[justinford]

Morning all,

Just to say that I have uploaded a Freshwater to Newport scenario for the route. It should be ready to download either later on today or tomorrow.

This is what to look for!!

File ID: 26097 Name:12:00 Freshwater to Newport Autumn 1909

KR

Justin.

P.S I will get around to doing more scenarios using timetables I have as mentioned in earlier posts, this coming week, as my daughter is alot better, plus I have a week off from work. Thanks to all for your comments.

[CeeGee]

Hi Ian and the IOW team

Once again a significant improvement in appearance to an already excellent route. Thanks to you all......

Through Newport I am now getting between 15 and 25 fps with the latest version, mostly below 20.....

Norman

I have been working on a scenario for Oxford-Paddington for the past week and haven't had a chance to take a trip to Newport. However, I have just started a Cowes to Ryde scenario and whilst doing an early test I certainly noticed a large drop in frame rate as I approached Newport from Cowes. This lasted through the station until I went into the short tunnel on the line to Whippingham, where it returned to normal, and stayed that way through to the Pier Head. I was using a fairly wide angle Helicopter view all the time, so I have no idea at the moment what the frame rate is like in cab view through Newport.

Colin

[justinford]

Hi Colin,

The frame rate in the cab is around 14-25fps, again, this is is due to the level of detail for the area in Newport, as you can imagine, it was a massive complex to be able to have all the sidings and buildings, the river Medina etc etc. It is mostly to do with the amount of assets involved in this area, but we (IOW Network team) needed to put this amount of work in to bring it to life as much as possible.

I will be in contact with Ian during the week, and see where the team will go with this.

Hope this explanation helps??

KR
Justin.

[markjudith]

I have been enjoying the latest version of the IOW Network, a fantastic route, thankyou to all those involved. My only problem is I personaly find that the new track compared to the IOW default track when viewed from the footplate, several yards infront, becomes a shimmering white texture which does not look like track at, this does spoil the the experience, is there anyway to change the track type to the default IOW type?

Mark

[0931330]

Hi All
we understand there is a speckled effect on the new track, though if there is anybody out there who knows how to can cure this fault, or advise Mark, we would appreciate the help.
personal myself & the IOW team, think the track should stay, as its more detailed than the default track & it's more likely the amount of assets used around Newport, rather than the track, thats knocking the FPS rate down.
I thank Norman for bringing this issue up for your comments, this way the end user can tell us what you like & don't like, it is the only way can keep up our high standards for the route.
Ian

[clockmaker]

Hi Mark

I have been carrying out further checks and I am sorry to say that I am still convinced that the new track is at fault.

The textures that give the shimmering effect do not, in my view, affect the fps. I substituted the original IOW textures for yours for these files:- IWNWRail.TgPcDx, IWNWBallast02.TgPcDx and IWNWSleeper02.TgPcDx . This got rid of the shimmering, and the fine detail that you wished to provide, but within the accuracy of the fps measurement I saw no difference in fps at a number of locations.

I cloned the route and relaid the track between Ashey and Havenstreet with the IOW track and then ran a train ( Newport Terrier and 2 Mk1 Southern 2nd class coaches ) on both this cloned route and the original route. I found the the position of the camera has a significant effect on fps so used the 'Head out of Window ' view .
I took the fps at two points on the section of the route well away from any buildings or stations. I also adjusted the speed of the loco to be 30mph in each case.

The fps at the locations with the new track were 69 and 70 while with the original IOW track in the cloned route gave 118 and 100. A significant reduction with the new track.

As my main problem with fps, and also others from comments in thread on forum, is around the Newport area. I tried dropping the Graphic Scenery detail to 1. This still gave a low fps near Newport but quite a lot of scenery is left and there is also road and loft scenery which did not seem to be affected by reducing the detail to 1.

To get rid of all the scenery I renamed the Scenery, Road Tiles and Loft Tiles folders in the route and and replaced them with empty folders. I also did this with IOWNetwork version 3.3 which I have installed.

I positioned the same train as above in Newport Down station platform for both routes. I got an fps of 112 for version 3.3 and 38 for Version 4 !! Other locations near Newport also show this significant reduction in the fps for the new route.
The fps is particularly low near the location of the viaduct even with no scenery. I get about 28 at that point but I realise that significant changes have been made to track and terrain around this area.

While I realise that the station trackwork has been relayed and is not in quite the same locations I do not belive that will cause the significant reductions.

I will try to post pictures of the trains at Newport station for both versions of the route. Sorry if they do not appear but I have not yet managed to post a picture in the forum.


[img]album%20118453%20Newport_Station_V3.jpg[/img]

This is for version 3.3

[img][album%20118453%20Newport_Station_V4.jpg][/img]

This is for the latest version of the route

I still do not seem to have managed to post the pictures . Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong. Thanks

I wish I could help further but can't do 3D drawing or anything else that goes with producing track etc.

If I can do anything to help let me know.

Norman

[CeeGee]

[img ]http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php ... ion_V3.jpg[/img ]




[img ]http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php ... ion_V4.jpg[/img ]

After a bit of head scratching here are Norman's screenshots.

Just remove the smilies and that was what I used.

Colin

[clockmaker]

Hi Colin.
Thanks for getting some of the pictures to show. Must try that method. Did you have to resize the pictures ? Unfortunately the RH side showing the frame rate is not shown in the forum thead though it does show when replying.
Do you know if the pictures show up in Preview or only once submitted ?
Thanks for your help.
Norman

[CeeGee]

Hi Norman,
I didn't resize them - I didn't see any size details to enable it.
However, I see 112 and 38 in the forum, and I assume that is the frame-rate. Could be something in your settings?
Yes, they do show up in Preview (otherwise I would have landed up with a load of failed posts )

Colin

Edit
I've just checked the details of one of your pix and the size shows as 1030 × 792. If that is the case then they need resizing to something around 800 wide - certainly not more than 1024

[clockmaker]

Hi Colin
I knew my pictures were large but I understood that if I used the method I tried they would automatically be resized.
I see pictures so frequently in the forum that I thought it must be simple. Not so for me. Thanks for yor help.
Norman

[CrisGer]

I was looking forward to seeing the new IOW route but i dont see it in the library....under Isle of Wight..is there somewhere else to look? I am venturing into the deep waters of RW again, after an initial attempt a year ago..and hoped to see this.

I have the default route ....and see we need to add assets .... thanks for help on this when someone has a chance.

I have the list still for V3 for stock is it all that is needed still?

BR Boxvan, Grey 18133
BR Boxvan, Red 18135
Ivat Class 2 Tank 18448
Class 3F Tank 18449
BR Hawthorn-Leslie 19997
Hawthorn-Leslie, Parkfild 20048
Stroudley Brakeend 20076
Stroudley Comp 20081
Austin BR Van, Green 20272
Coalwagon, Highley Mining 20323
BR Standard Van Reskin 21156
IOW Terriers 22483
5 Plank Wagon 23982
E-M Coalwagons 23913
PO 5 Plank wagons 23585
DT A1x Terrier http://www.digitaltraction.net are these available again?

it looks like these have been re named:

3 BR Standard Van Reskins (File ID: 21565)
Hawthorn Leslie - Parkfield (File ID: 24300)

[CrisGer]

Ah< i think i see it is filed under Rail Simulator and it is under Southern Branch.

Is Version 5 the latest version? and if so do we need to load the previous versions of the route? I only saw a 2.something version other than 5

[FoggyMorning]

Hi Chris

I think I'm right in saying that v. 5 is the latest "complete" version but there is a patch that takes it up to v. 5.5

Steve