Class 57/0 Update Discussion

[markpullinger]

Sidewalls is cars - flanges is railways

[Wikkus]

Sidewalls is cars - flanges is railways

Technically, the flange is part of the tyre (or tire, if you prefer ) ...

Rik.

[Kariban]

Sidewalls is cars - flanges is railways

A flange would probably be tread, not that I've ever seen a flanged rubber tyre . So what do you call the side of a railway tyre? I'd call it the rim, but I guess that's not technically correct either.

[Kromaatikse]

The tyre is just a ring of metal which is shrunk onto the wheel core, and forms the wear surface of the wheel - it is regularly scraped down to maintain the correct profile ("turning") and replaced when it is too worn.

I don't think the visible side of it has a specific name. The inner side, of course, forms the flange.

[wolly1380]

Well put Kromaatikse
I use to spend almost every day in Alerton wheel lathe, if you ever notice a grove on the wheels of modern stock that is a wear indicator once the turning has reached this groove the wheel is removed for new tier fitting.

[Wikkus]

if you ever notice a grove on the wheels of modern stock that is a wear indicator once the turning has reached this groove the wheel is removed for new tier fitting.

Otherwise known as the "witness groove".

Rik.

[AndyUK]

Class 57/0 update is coming soon - any suggestions for improvements? - We are working on additional internal sounds by the way but we'd love to hear any more feedback you might have.

You might consider altering the train brake control so that it behaves the same as the one in the WCML 86/4. This gives the correct brake pipe pressures for release, running and full service and has notches in the right places making it easier to control.

Andy L

[AndyUK]

One more from me ! The amps should drop to zero when the controller is put in the 'Off' position and the tractive effort should drop to zero because the motor contactors are open in that position. At the moment the amps drop slowly to zero and the loco feels as if it's still under power when the controller is moved to off. I suspect this is due to the way the delayed response of the engine to the controller is modelled.

Andy L

[Kromaatikse]

The "fag packet" HSTs also have the right kind of brake controller for this purpose, although they lack an overcharge position. If the 57 has automatic overcharge though, this would be better.

(The other HSTs *used* to have the correct brake controller as well, but are currently in a broken state.)

[AndyUK]

The "fag packet" HSTs also have the right kind of brake controller for this purpose, although they lack an overcharge position. If the 57 has automatic overcharge though, this would be better.

The HSTs and Class 56 use the Davis & Metcalfe E70 Brake Control Unit which has stepped braking. I thought the 57/0 used the same brake as the Class 47 which like many BR locos has the Westinghouse M8 brake valve, or one very similar to it in the way the brakes are controlled**. This doesn't have stepped braking but does have detents or notches in the running and full service positions like those modelled in the WCML 86/4. The presence of those notches in the model make the brake easier to handle. Or was the 57/0 brake changed to the 56 type on re-build? Comparing one of my Class 57 cab photos with 47 and 56 photos on the web suggests not, but the controls all seem very similar.

Andy L

** Subsequent searching suggests the 47 (and 57?) use the Davis & Metcalfe equivent to the M8.

[Ooveecouk]

The "fag packet" HSTs also have the right kind of brake controller for this purpose, although they lack an overcharge position. If the 57 has automatic overcharge though, this would be better.

The HSTs and Class 56 use the Davis & Metcalfe E70 Brake Control Unit which has stepped braking. I thought the 57/0 used the same brake as the Class 47 which like many BR locos has the Westinghouse M8 brake valve, or one very similar to it. This doesn't have stepped braking but does have detents or notches in the running and full service positions like those modelled in the WCML 86/4. The presence of those notches in the model make the brake easier to handle. Or was the 57/0 brake changed to the 56 type on re-build? Comparing one of my Class 57 cab photos with 47 and 56 photos on the web suggests not, but the controls all seem very similar.

Andy L

Thanks Andy, I have already made changes to the brakes such as apply and release timings plus brake amount. I'll take a look at the 86/4 and see what they have done on there. You'll have to excuse me but I'm not sure what brake overcharge is so unless someone explains to me I cannot implement this. - I have a rough idea that it increases the brake pipe to 5.5bar - but what is its purpose?

[AndyUK]

The purpose of the Release position, which as you say does give about .5 bar overcharge is explained much better that I could on pages 45 - 47 of the BR Manual here: http://www.locodocs.co.uk/brmanuals/Dri ... 3-1982.htm, but in essence it seems to assist the release of brakes in very long trains or is a means of releasing any dragging brakes.

In the 86/4 the overcharge on putting the brake to the Release position is purely cosmetic, RW2 doesn't seem to model overcharge internally, and consequently the brake pipe pressure will shoot straight up when Release is selected whereas the pressure rise would be no quicker than gained by the putting the brake to the Running postion.

Andy L

[Kromaatikse]

The most relevant information is found on page 11 of the booklet on that link. (The link doesn't lead to a specific page, but to the booklet.)

Technically, the 86's implementation of the overcharge is also slightly incorrect in that the Release position should be spring-loaded. However, it's entirely likely that this is impossible to specify in Railworks.

[wolly1380]

One more from me ! The amps should drop to zero when the controller is put in the 'Off' position and the tractive effort should drop to zero because the motor contactors are open in that position. At the moment the amps drop slowly to zero and the loco feels as if it's still under power when the controller is moved to off. I suspect this is due to the way the delayed response of the engine to the controller is modelled.

Andy L

Hi Andy the amps is taken off the alternator not the traction motors. Amps is literally determined by engine RPM this is as close to accurate as any Diesel Electric that RW has had the pleasure of simulating.

[AndyUK]

One more from me ! The amps should drop to zero when the controller is put in the 'Off' position and the tractive effort should drop to zero because the motor contactors are open in that position. At the moment the amps drop slowly to zero and the loco feels as if it's still under power when the controller is moved to off. I suspect this is due to the way the delayed response of the engine to the controller is modelled.

Andy L

Hi Andy the amps is taken off the alternator not the traction motors. Amps is literally determined by engine RPM this is as close to accurate as any Diesel Electric that RW has had the pleasure of simulating.

But if the motor contactors are open there is no circuit between the traction motors and alternator - therefore no current can flow hence the ammeter should read zero.

Andy L