Atomic Systems

In fairness to JT, you can buy the Rail Simulator DVD version of the Voyager pack for £14.99 from Amazon and you install this via the patcher from Just Trains.

Prices are expensive I agree but while Im no defender of payware pricing, this does pale into insignificance when you look at what some of the two year old add-ons for FS9/FSX are going for (PMDG titles typically £40 or more).

gnash wrote:
Subjective ....... , Personally I was disappointed with this model ( twice , and perhaps I foolishly expected more the second time around ) , poor representation of the B5000 bogies , not enough geometry overall and textures that don't do enough to enhance what little geometry there is ( particularly in those bogies ) , a mesh error that stands out like the proverbial , these points (and others) guarantee that I'll not purchase an item by this author again .

Value for money > Caveat Emptor

Personal opinion of course, but also, I believe the model was actually created by Railwaves and published by JT. Not a complete defence of course, but for you to guarantee you wont purchase from them again when presented with something like the Class 60, which when released was regarded by many as the finest model out there.

Like we always say, personal preference and that is no bad thing.

Darpor wrote:

gnash wrote:
Subjective ....... , Personally I was disappointed with this model ( twice , and perhaps I foolishly expected more the second time around ) , poor representation of the B5000 bogies , not enough geometry overall and textures that don't do enough to enhance what little geometry there is ( particularly in those bogies ) , a mesh error that stands out like the proverbial , these points (and others) guarantee that I'll not purchase an item by this author again .

Value for money > Caveat Emptor

Personal opinion of course, but also, I believe the model was actually created by Railwaves and published by JT. Not a complete defence of course, but for you to guarantee you wont purchase from them again when presented with something like the Class 60, which when released was regarded by many as the finest model out there.

Like we always say, personal preference and that is no bad thing.

Probably why I wrote " Author " and not " Publisher " , I'm well aware who did the modelling and they'll not see my coinage again. Got no problems with other items I've purchased from JT going back to the MSTS American Classics box I have nor with Matts A4 . Do have a large problem with what I'll politely describe as poor workmanship from any $$ author .

gnash wrote:
Probably why I wrote " Author " and not " Publisher " , I'm well aware who did the modelling and they'll not see my coinage again. Got no problems with other items I've purchased from JT going back to the MSTS American Classics box I have nor with Matts A4 . Do have a large problem with what I'll politely describe as poor workmanship from any $$ author .

Ah, I get you.

Is the Voyager that bad? It looks fine to me, and I've seen a lot worse in RS/RW.
Then again it's not really my era, and I don't get to see too many as I am ex-patriated.

Greetings,

I do believe that the voyager was created for RS more so than for RW. I do have my issues with the model in regards to realism and usage, but I've come to terms with that and have resorted to reducing the model to AI only. If you look at the quality of models produced today, compaired to when the Voyager came out, there is a big difference. Graphically, it does show it's age, compared to the likes of the 390 and 86, even the A1, and from JT, the 60...... Realism wise, it's far off in my view, having watched countless videos of in-cab rides on the 220 and 221, it's like: "where did they go wrong??" But then again, one can forgive them for that, as it was brought to my attention that the way the model is today, is the way the community would appreciate it more.....( Really???? ). If you have ever watched a cab ride video of the voyager, you would understand what I mean.

It would be fantastic if someone with the knowleage and creative skills could update the model to bring it on par with what we have today, it will be great, sort of like whaat RS.com did with the 86. I would even be prepared to pay 20 or 30quid for it, thats how much I feel the voyager needs an upgrade. Now the tilting voyager is coming, I just hope that they have ironed out the other problems too.....

Is the Voyager that bad?

Compared to the 390.........YES.........IMHO
( i have seen Voyager on friends machine and was not that impressed )...

as i said..£6.99 is a fair price for this 2nd rate model,

the two year old add-ons for FS9/FSX are going for (PMDG titles typically £40 or more).

.... = RIP OFF

On a separate note DLC for RED DEAD REDEMPTION.....£9.99.......FAIR PRICE FOR WHAT YOU GET..(although subjective to some gamers )
also...DLC for Rockband £1.99 per song generally....= fair price

Brian

Obviously everyone would like cheaper DLC; and for some it will always be too expensive for what it is. I think £6.99 is a little cheeky though
Personally I'd agree that the Voyager model shows its age in build quality compared to newer stock, which is understandable I guess. I believe it was built even before Rail Sim was actually released. I think in comparison to the £19.99 offerings from the Class 20 Collection, or the Class 60 & Freight Wagons, or even N-Y Modern, then £14.99 is a little overpriced. It would be perfectly acceptable if the 221 tilted though (yes it says it's being worked on), but I think otherwise £11.99 is reasonable for what it is.

Having said that, it was my first purchase from JT and gave me plenty of reward point which eventually knocked the price of the Class 20 collection down to under £5! They are to be seriously commended for such a reward system and it shows really nice customer appreciation.

the two year old add-ons for FS9/FSX are going for (PMDG titles typically £40 or more)..... = RIP OFF

+1

I wouldn't disagree with you there!

What annoys me is I had the PMDG 747 but sold it secondhand on Ebay for much less than what they're going for new. And much as I like the MD11 it can rot on the shelf at > £40.

Sorry to venture a bit OT into airline simming but it demonstrates the train sim (in wider sense) market is not the only place where the price of add-ons is way out of proportion, often more than the original game cost.

Hi Guys

I would have thought that the only people who can complain about payware are those (Few) that are producing freeware

As to the pricing anyone care to take a guess as to how many of each item I sell... ?

The argument that lowering the pricing does not stand up.. stuff that is free or low priced has no different sales figures.

in fact exactly the opposite I am convinced that I could raise prices and it make not one bit of difference to the number I sell. ... should I demonstrate ?

Bottom line is we would all like all things cheaper, perhaps when the moaning stops and RW really does take off the user base will expands the price will drop.

Till then please stop trying to tell developers how to run their business, plenty of room in the field if you really want to demonstrate just how it should be done.

This a niche hobby (RW) and until things get mainstream you can expect to pay niche market prices.


Sly

Yes seven scenario's is more than what you would get with most other addon packs and should be taken into account and of course the just trains points for money off your next purchase also, although I dont have the Voyager pack, if it of the same quality as all the other stuff I have bought from JT then I think it represents good value consdering what you get. The Class 60 pack *** Hums & Ha's **** because there is only one scenario supplied with the class 60 I initially thought it was overpriced and did'nt buy it. However it does have 10 liveries, superb sound set excellent cab with lit intruments for night driving, which you dont fully appreciate until you actually have the add on pack. I snapped it up when it was sale though a few weeks ago what was it £2.99? What-a-bargain: if you missed that one then that is unlucky!. £9.99 would make this pack great value for money and more appealing, or a couple more scenario's. However I suspect that some or all of those liveries supplied with the class 60 might have to have been licensed by Just Trains hence why the Class 60 pack is that little bit more expensive.

I have to agree with Sly here - if the moaners stop other people buying the addons - how do they expect the developer to afford to be ABLE to drop the prices to the level they want with reduced sales to split the cost?? OK fair comment if they are not as described - but as I've never driven a real voyager, I can't see the `problems` people are having issues with - I did look at the videos & decided I liked it so bought it, at the sales stand at Warley last year or the year before. I probably represent a none train driver here, so if it looks good, goes well & makes a noise I'm happy! - as will probably anyone who hasn't been on one - and I bet there are quite a few more players than experts using it and enjoying..........

tofwings wrote:
On a separate note DLC for RED DEAD REDEMPTION.....£9.99.......FAIR PRICE FOR WHAT YOU GET..(although subjective to some gamers )
also...DLC for Rockband £1.99 per song generally....= fair price

Brian

Yes Sly is correct. To compare Mainstream top 10 (or top 20) chart games to Railworks is a bit ridiculous as the volume of sales is completley different. Simple economics: the more you sell the cheaper you can sell it.