Atomic Systems

I will also get 55% no matter how easy i tap my keyboard when starting off.Once i have established forward momentum,the tapping seems to work as it should.I can tap up or down in small steps with no bother at all.This is just what i have observed

Hector

Ignore the "throttle percentage" reported by the F4 and F5 displays. That's the value being fed to the underlying physics engine by the custom control scripts, and corresponds more closely to the ammeter reading than anything else.

Watch the gauges in the cab instead, they're designed to be driven by.

By design the throttle will initially surge to 55% and then 100% (the latter usually inducing wheel spin).
I assume this is a reflection of the prototype since both RSC's and David Brindley's versions exhibit exactly the same behaviour - I guess that more power is required to start moving than to keep moving, reflected by the decline of the throttle percentage once you reach about 7-9mph

FoggyMorning wrote:By design the throttle will initially surge to 55% and then 100% (the latter usually inducing wheel spin).
I assume this is a reflection of the prototype since both RSC's and David Brindley's versions exhibit exactly the same behaviour - I guess that more power is required to start moving than to keep moving, reflected by the decline of the throttle percentage once you reach about 7-9mph

It is not that more power is needed, but rather that the way a tapping control works is that power decreases as speed increases, to get more power again you have to move to the next tap. It's a bit like a manual gearbox in a car, once you get to the top of the power band it's time to shift to the next gear, but in this case the higher taps have way too much power at lower speeds.

IRL this is also a feature of diesel-electrics - you have to watch your throttle advance so as not to overload the generator and motors. Unfortunately this has not been modelled in the diesel-electrics in RailWorks, so many players are not used to paying attention to it.

Correct, for british diesel locos that have dc generators you have to put the controller into the on position 1st, then open up gradually. On the English electrics you had to feel for the on position, all the other loco's I drove it was marked clearly and was a definite notch. Not sure about the class 50, maybe somebody on here would have a better idea, I know there are a couple of ex class 50 drivers around.

Having solved the method of driving, ie, not using the A and D keys until the train is well and truly moving, I start by using the mouse, I now find I am missing two scenarios, there should be twelve in the Route Menu, I only have ten. The Scots Pine and The Argyle Line are the missing ones, they show in the Scenarios folder but not in the Train Sim Routes menu.

John

johny wrote:Having solved the method of driving, ie, not using the A and D keys until the train is well and truly moving, I start by using the mouse, I now find I am missing two scenarios, there should be twelve in the Route Menu, I only have ten. The Scots Pine and The Argyle Line are the missing ones, they show in the Scenarios folder but not in the Train Sim Routes menu.

John

Verify local game cache using Steam, it sounds like you have an incomplete download caused by some conflict on your system.

Thank you for that one, have done as suggested, 9 files failed to validate and were reacquired, the missing scenarios are now available. The problem may well have been caused by the last update, the number never changed from 108 to 110 (it has now), and it took this new route to show up a problem.

John

In another posting I asked if there was an idiot's guide to driving the 86. I was trying to use thev tap changer like an HST power lever, so was getting literally nowhere fast! Anyway, after perseverance, and reading other postings I got there.

Here's my plain English guide to getting the thing to do what you want.

The ‘tap changer’ is not a power lever like the HST's. It's more complicated. Ignore the throttle percentage in F5. I'm sure it means something but whatever it is doesn't seem to matter.

The tap has 4 positions. I'm sure there are proper terms, but mine are (starting from furthest away from you):

1) Off
2) Live

3) Hold

4) Max

Positions 1 and 2 are very close together. So close you’ll hardly notice the tap lever move.

'Tap' written below means literally that: just tap a key. Push = hold a key down for longer than a tap

A) Starting
Reverser into forwards (roaring noise)
Push the A key so that it moves positively from position 1 (top left) into the horizontal (that's 3 - hold). It must be horizontal to be in Hold.
Tap the A key once and brakes off. Just tap, no more.
The ammeter gauge needles to the top right will move from green into yellow
The loco will begin to move
When the ammeter needles move back into green (about half way into green) tap A again. The ammeter will move back into yellow and acceleration will increase.

You can carry on tapping A like this up to 38 times, though after 5 or 6 taps you can stop worrying about the ammeters and just tap rapidly or see B below. The tap indicator gauge just to the right of the ammeters (white needle on black background) shows each additional tap of power with a slight movement upwards. When the gauge needle is at the top (after 38 taps) you’ve applied full power. If you look closely at the tap lever you’ll see that every time you tap the lever twitches upwards.

B) Accelerating rapidly
You don’t have to tap all the way up to maximum throttle. If you have no low speed restrictions to worry about, after 5 or 6 taps (at about 20mph) push A and the tap lever will move positively to point to the bottom left (4 – max). This applies full, 38 tap current in one go. When the tap indicator reaches the top (maximum current)- or as far as you want it to go - you can press D to return to position 3 (hold).

DON’T go to position 4 (max) before 5 or 6 taps. If you do the ammeter needle will go all the way into red and the loco will trip out.

C) Reducing the amount of current applied
If in position 4, push D to get into to position 3 (hold). From 3 (hold) Tap D to reduce power incrementally.

You can apply more current again by tapping or pushing A as needed.

D) Coasting
If in position 4, push D to get into to position 3 (hold). From position 3 (hold) push D to get the tap changer into position 2 (Live) (towards top left). Then push D again to get the tap changer into position 1 (off) The tap changer travel distance from 2 to 1 is very small. Watch the tap gauge needle slowly drop down to zero. You will then be coasting.

To accelerate again, wait for the tap gauge needle to return to zero before pushing A to get the tap lever back into 3 (control) and tapping up again (see A and B above).

E) Braking
Push D as many times as needed to get the tap lever to position 1 (off). Brake as normal. See above re accelerating again.

F) Stopping
Follow E above and return reverser to neutral when stopped.

Hope that helps someone else to enjoy this loco - when you get used to it it's fab.

Spoerers

whowa!

While the move to position 4 worked fine after 5 taps in a free roam check out, it certainly didn't in a scenario I just tried! The result was wheel spin and I almost tripped out. So I suggest a fair bit more tapping up first.

Good luck!

Spoerers

larch wrote:whowa!

While the move to position 4 worked fine after 5 taps in a free roam check out, it certainly didn't in a scenario I just tried! The result was wheel spin and I almost tripped out. So I suggest a fair bit more tapping up first.

Good luck!

Spoerers

The amount of current for a given voltage tap relates to the speed, so the time to switch from individual taps to the "run up" position cannot be done every time you get to the fifth tap. If you had a light engine movement it would be a really fast process because the acceleration would be rapid, while a really heavy load would lead to slow acceleration and being more careful with how you go through it.

The one thing that is better with the freeware Class 86 is the control of this stuff. You get a click sound every time it moves up/down a tap, the "run down" position works properly, the gauges are more readable and vigilance control is included. Unfortunately the rest of the model is more typical freeware quality, but because Dave Brindley (the freeware Class 86 creator) was assisting RS.com with the control system for the new payware model I am quite surprised it hasn't been done properly. Because of this, overall I would rate the freeware model as the better model to drive from inside the cab.

Just want to say thanks to Larch for his summary of the driving instructions which has helped me to get rolling with this superb machine. What seems strange to me however is that no where in this thread or the manuals is there any mention of driving in intermediate or simple mode. There are some of us lesser mortals who like to explore the route in a relaxed manner without having to constantly listen out for AWS alerts. From my own trials so far it seems that in intermediate mode you can drive by using the mouse to move the levers but not by using the keyboard keys. (A,D,W,S, and the brake keys all seem to be disabled). In simple mode there seems to be no way of driving the train at all.

Have I missed something? Are there any plans to provide intermediate and simple mode options for driving the 86/4?

Regards,
Richard

lomasra wrote:Just want to say thanks to Larch for his summary of the driving instructions which has helped me to get rolling with this superb machine. What seems strange to me however is that no where in this thread or the manuals is there any mention of driving in intermediate or simple mode. There are some of us lesser mortals who like to explore the route in a relaxed manner without having to constantly listen out for AWS alerts. From my own trials so far it seems that in intermediate mode you can drive by using the mouse to move the levers but not by using the keyboard keys. (A,D,W,S, and the brake keys all seem to be disabled). In simple mode there seems to be no way of driving the train at all.

Have I missed something? Are there any plans to provide intermediate and simple mode options for driving the 86/4?

Regards,
Richard

Coming at a later date with RSC's new cab control system.

It is the Expert mode along with the attendant Career mode that is bugging me, now that I can at least drive the train even if it isn't in the way described in the documentation, like a few others I am not interested in scoring points. I have SPADs etc turned off but then there is the 1% emergency which locks the reverser in neutral, shades of MSTS here, but at least in MSTS you can get going again. In future, I must check more carefully whether a route, its scenarios and assets are aimed at Experts only before parting with my money.

Enough is enough. It is four days since I bought the route and there has been nothing but problems, I've yet to complete a journey.

John