The future of freeware

[Darpor]

Sorry Vern but I do take slight issue with that. I put a lot of time and effort into the modern route to try and make it feel just that, modern. I know you are not directly critiscising it but at the same time, I don't come on here and say something is not this or not that.

I am sure JT will release a progress report on Bristol to Exeter when good and ready, I am looking forward to it and support them for continuing the project. We don't know if anything has happened behind the scenes that have caused the delay.

[davidhossack]

I personally think all this time wasted by posting threads like this could be used to make valuable freeware content.

started with freeware,but when promise is shown, they are snapped up by the commercial side,i have no problem with that,good luck to them!

If this was directed at anyway towards Oovee, please be aware that David approached us and kindly offered the task of painting the TEAs.

(view are my own and not that of Oovee Ltd)

just thought I would save myself some cash...

[chrisreb]

I am full of admiration for what has benn produced both freeware and payware and am shocked at what I have spent.

It is new routes where we have been lacking although even here with the route challenge, W&B, Mully's Northern Lights, Heartbeat Moor etc. I have had plenty to get me teeth into. JT's Exeter route seems to have had no updates for more than a year and the rate the South Devon Banks expands northward we will have a steam era version of it.

We should not be too quick to beat ourselves up as things to me at least are gathering pace. I can see where people looking for non UK routes are getting frustrated as these have been less forthcoming and those that have (e.g. CSX) have proven dificult to do scenarios for. In my case CSX is prone to crashing if I try to load up much more than a single consist for freeroam.

Whilst we can always wish for more things have gathered pace over the last few months.

[bigvern]

Sorry Vern but I do take slight issue with that. I put a lot of time and effort into the modern route to try and make it feel just that, modern. I know you are not directly critiscising it but at the same time, I don't come on here and say something is not this or not that.

I am sure JT will release a progress report on Bristol to Exeter when good and ready, I am looking forward to it and support them for continuing the project. We don't know if anything has happened behind the scenes that have caused the delay.

No criticism intended and I fully respect the work you put in. However you cannot alter the fact that regardless of the makeover it covers the same geographic territory as the existing default route.

Do we know who is/was actually building Bristol to Exeter or is it all QT?

[Darpor]

Hi Vern, yes, understand your point, it is the same route map.

[hoytt]

With regards to commercial routes, the German RW upgrade brings an updated Hagen to Siegen and extra loco's for that route (I know this might not be as interesting to some as a UK route). And Bluesky Interactive are still working on their Hoellentalbahn (German language) addon which is a very interesting route to drive. They haven't announced a release data yet, but I'm still hoping for an April/May release.

[RSderek]

http://the-art-of-rws.blogspot.com/2010 ... aders.html

this may help a few people create some nice looking scenery (sorry it is max but then that is my tool of choice)

regards

Derek

[SaMa1]

Thank you for the tutorial Derek. This approach is interesting, I hope there could be a shader with specular and bump map in addition to having ambient occlusion from different channel.

[Bullet399]

only thing is i need a tutorial to get this expensive 3D max. I'm again and again impressed how many privat people have that software .

[BadWhippet]

As a basic player who wants to shove a disc in a drive and hit the 'drive a scenario' button, payware is really my only option unless I strike lucky.

I HAVE struck lucky with freeware but, for the most part, I've had some horrible experiences with trying to install freeware in both MSTS and RS. That does not make the freeware 'bad', just that it's better suited to people who knew about things like default cab replacements, working around a package thingo that won't install in the conventional way, putting this here and that there. Out of all the MSTS freeware content I tried, I was only successful with one freeware collection (the wonderful and fantastic Blackpool Trams) but even there I nearly screwed up my gathering of the bits required. In RS, as well as finding myself driving a cab without a train and scenarios that would simply fail to load or were missing content, I managed to break my game completely with one. I haven't tried ANY freeware in RW yet because I'm nervous of damaging it. This is NO complaint, the freeware looks to be of fantastically high callibre but freeware artists owe nothing to anybody and have already dedicated their time into making the content, so why on earth do they need a forum full of newbies droning on about not being able to get it to work? In short, they are not responsible for what happens to my game and so this renders freeware a safe proposition only for seasoned players who also know how to configure routes and content (my opinion).

That makes me pretty much dependent on payware. As soon as content becomes payware, I expect an installer and a product that, even if there is some kind of failure, it will not wreck my game. I also expect all the necessary content to be included (something not always possible with freeware because many projects contain independent works from different artists). Should it go wrong, I expect some assistance or a refund (and I've not been disappointed yet - lovely service from both Armstrong Powerhouse and JustTrains). I also expect the product to mention whether or not it includes scenarios because, without scenarios, the payware is redundant for me (like that gorgeous Class 390 - zero scenarios included so is useless to me as a standalone product). Mostly, the difference is that I do not feel guilty about seeking help or being the resident n00b. I'm by no means flush with cash so I'm needing to wait for the Newcastle -York Modern and a lovely wagon pack with scenarios I saw on Steam yesterday because I happily blew my cash on the Class 20. Provided there is a sensible system to allow reinstalls when upgrading computers etc, I feel safer with payware due to past unfortunate experiences.

[NeutronIC]

Must admit I am finding freeware is on the rise at the moment, certainly not feeling any kind of failing or reduction in it.

Premium membership, indeed general access to UKTS has not been this high in a long time - I'd almost say that there is now a definite sign of growth in the community. The total number of downloads is actually down, but that's more because downloads of MSTS have gone shooting downwards - RailWorks downloads are rapidly on the way up, for oct/nov/dec it was something like an average 15,000 downloads growth *per* month - which still leaves it some way to get to where MSTS was around say october but not that long before it goes past MSTS as that goes downwards... assuming that the trend continues of course. But, we've seen something like a 10% rise in premium memberships in Dec/Jan and a 30% fall in MSTS download figures.

As far as payware items being of differing qualities, well, what can you say - that's a fact of life isn't it? One developer includes 10 scenarios, another doesn't include any, another includes 15 livery variants, another doesn't, another puts renaming and shed coding etc in, another just puts numbering. There are no "standards" for this. It's usually pretty clear what there is and isn't on a payware release so I don't think anyone can say they are being duped and expecting more than there is. By all means feed back to the developers what your ideal products would be - but one developer may feel that extra scenarios can be justified in the cost while another might not - that's just business, and if that's what is important to you then you need to make sure you vote with your wallet... of course, with the relatively little amount of content available payware your choices are simply to put up with it or to go without, which might not be acceptable to you either, but again, that's unfortunately where we are at. As things develop over the next year or two we'll have tons of content (both free and payware), possibly even overlaps that will provide actual choice, and that's when things will balance out. Right now the best any of us can do is to put a reasoned case to those producing the content and hope that it improves things. I also think that as time progresses the packs are naturally becoming more and more comprehensive - rs.com have been in the game now for the longest and most packs they put out now are starting to get quite comprehensive, such as the Challenger pack. Others such as MeshTools are relative newcomers to the payware scene and you might well find future products get more content in them as a response to the feedback they are now getting - who knows, we'll have to see.

I must admit to being a tad negative about the way that content is dealt with as it moves from direct-sale to steam, where that new content is sometimes slightly improved but you end up having to buy it again to get it - it does make me generally now want to steer clear of anyone other than buying from Steam. Means i'll have to wait, but it means i'll avoid the inevitable re-purchase down the line. Again, that boils down to a "put up with it or do without" - if you can't bear the latter then you'll just have to take a strong drink to cope

Routes - there are starting to be some excellent freeware routes now. I'm no longer looking to the commercial sector to actually do anything in this area if I'm honest. With Keith (Port Road and WCML North), Shane (Wales and Borders), John (South Devon Banks and numerous others), Vern (Heartbeat and Sulitjelma) and others (don't be insulted if I haven't mentioned you ) there are actually some pretty fine routes available now, not to mention the others contributed in the route building challenge such as Bob's Radcliffe route, which is also being extended at the moment as well. Again, just in the last two or three months, things seem to have really turned a corner in this area.

Freeware developers have been getting "turned to the dark side" since MSTS began, that's nothing new and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Quite often many of them continue to produce freeware as has been commented on before, or they might well have stopped entirely had a more effective "justification" for the time they're spending not presented itself, so you'd have lost them anyway. One of the traps that many users fall in to is not really looking at the bigger picture, criticising payware developers and not appreciating that you criticise the payware developer you diminish their desire for freeware (or kill it off - they gave you these things for free, asked you to pay for one and that makes them the most unreasonable person in the world - right, they'll stop doing anything for free then). This has happened before in the MSTS community, almost everybody in MakingTracks has a very firm footing in freeware, almost all of them were among the original pioneers that helped make it what it is today. The same was true with BlueArrow's team, with the exception of one or two members the were all from a freeware history - and usually a pretty hugely productive one, and even then the one or two purely commercial members of BA ended up producing an absolute ton of freeware items both during and after BA's demise. Even Darren Porter (darpor) who is on this very thread, who has produced the Newcastle to York Modern payware route add-on for RailWorks has released one or two (at least - apologies Darren I can't remember off the top of my head ) bits of freeware such as the excellent Cresston route.

Going forwards, I think there's plenty of room for both to co-exist. As the amount of varied stock in RailWorks increases you'll see more and more people start using it now that they're loco-of-choice is available, this will likely increase the pool of BOTH freeware and payware developers and as things grow so will the amount of content produced. I'm quite confident now that we're over the worst of it, if the sites current figures are anything to go by the RailWorks community is now starting to grow at a reasonable pace and that means that 2010 is going to see potentially huge growth both in the side of the downloading community AND in the development community (pay and freeware, again).

Just to underline the original point of the topic - I don't feel that payware is in any way getting in the way of or impinging freeware. I have always supported those who produce payware, I have even produced my own in the past, and I have also directed some freeware developers towards payware opportunities when they come up, and will continue to do so. It's all good for RailWorks, and what's good for RailWorks is good for this site.

Cheers
Matt.

[peterholton]

only thing is i need a tutorial to get this expensive 3D max. I'm again and again impressed how many privat people have that software .

This is my main hobby. I put off updating my car 4 years ago to buy 3dsMax 8 & Photoshop, then took out a subscription to keep it updated. To be honest it's just about paid for itself, but I've made stuff for 3dts as a hobby, so haven't expected anything else.

Other folks can pay that much annually on car modifications, RTR OO gauge trains, fishing tackle. I don't think it's too expensive for something that keeps me occupied and out of the pub!

Peter

Edit: 5 years! aaargh, getting old.

[miglietto]

only thing is i need a tutorial to get this expensive 3D max. I'm again and again impressed how many privat people have that software .

I'm quite puzzled too. Maybe Santa ?

[growler37]

Hi
As i started this discusion, can i thank all the posters for there intresting and informative comments all posted in a good natured and constructive way,thankyou everyone for that.
I really enjoyed Matts post, and i echo most of his comments,it all boils down to a balance,it is a fact that the number of freeware UK locos, has dramaticly reduced but the quality of content coming from our Chinese and European friends has filled the Gap,i always thought i was not really intrested in non British railways,but my tastes have changed with the running of some of the fantastic non british content,so i guess one door closes and another opens,The freeware route building side is in great shape! with some fantastic routes being sweated over in the background,i think the problem area is a question of needing more route building assets,and maybe RS.COM will turn there attention to this in the future,at this time the freeware side has produced the majority of route assets,Trainz has some great building assets at its disposal i really like the station assets were different types of overall roofs and wall types can be used a sort of diy kit this is the sort of thing i would like to see in RW soon.
I am currently building a brand new version of West Somerset for RW using the brilliant RW decal tool it is a huge leap forward in route building and congratulations must go to the creator,as well as putting the finishing touches to West Cornwall 1950,so my commitment to RW is as strong as ever.
i think this is going to be an exciting year for RW with some great projects on the go by some very talanted people,i,m looking forward to it.
Regards
Kevin

[jamesh]

Interesting post and it raises several good points. First after reading through the comments here I decided to go and have a look at the downloads section of UKTS and it's definitely growing nicely. There are routes, locos, rolling stock and more and more being added all the time. So I certainly don't see the freeware side of things as being dead or even in trouble. But I can also see some people's concern that a lot of the "free" downloads require you to have the original payware file in order to get the free stuff.
In many way it's a case of which came first the chicken or the egg. In the case of RW the payware is coming first followed by the freeware. In MSTS we had the opposite where the free stuff came first then the payware. But that was for different reasons. In the early days of MSTS we were all struggling to learn the tools and the freeware got released and improved upon as skills were built up. So you ended up with lots of free stuff early on and then a build up of payware later on. Mind you even then there were doom and gloom posts about the death of freeware due to commercial add-ons.
As someone who's dabbled on both sides of the content creation market I do agree with earlier comments about exposure. Right now the community is small but growing, but till it gets to a certain size you won't see a lot of people making the jump to produce stuff.
Going back to the comment Sly made, the average number of downloads for files in the library is around 300. Apparently about four times that number of people are buying add-ons, 1200 people is still not a lot. I know the last route I did for MSTS at Streamlines sold a lot more than 1200 copies. Not to rub salt in the wound Vern, but a few years ago someone was bragging that the Cambrian had sold almost 5000 copies.
When the community can support numbers like that I think you'll find that freeware quite comfortably lives alongside commercial add-ons. Sure there will still be complaints about add-ons killing freeware, or developers jumping ship, but really both feed each other.
Cheers,
James.