Atomic Systems

Also posted on WCML North thread on Route Building board
Re: WCML North
by keithmross on Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:58 am

Hi guys,
I've been a bit quiet on this one as I am in a dilema for a few reasons.

I really want to share the route with you, so I may need your views on how to move forward.

One thing that has been bugging me is the large asset depencency list - W&B has demonstrated how much of a problem this can be.
So, I was lookling into packaging some of the more awkward stuff alongside the route to make life easier.
This highlighted a major issue with one particular set of items. The French catenary assets I have used (and have become an essential element) and being redeveloped.
This is good news as I understand the new versions will include LODs and be easier on FPS. However, the updating of this enormous pack will take a while and the new assets will not overwrite the existing ones.
So, do I wait and replace the catenary to improve performance or release the route as it is and force everyone to track these down and suffer the FPS drop or find someone to build some UK based assets?
I would love to build a set of UK catenary types but simply don't have the time (or talent) to get this done.
Does anyone have anything in the pipeline?

The next issue is related to the current state of progress. I have basically stopped work on it - mainly because I've lost a bit of direction and been significantly sidetracked by the Route Building Challenge and consequent work on The Port Road route - which I am enjoying more .
The loss of direction is also a consequence of the GARL project which came to light a few weeks ago. This features a rivet-countingly-accurate reconstruction of Glasgow Central and the lines to the south. Obviously I can't incorporate this wholesale into my route, but I could potentially include assets from it. This potential is still unclear, therefore so am I when it comes to doing the Glasgow area.

While I can do much with the default assets and great freeware items I cannot manage to create Glasgow Central. Nor do I want to waste weeks doing an approximation of the station approaches and throat trackwork to find later that I can eventually use the new payware assets to do it properly.

So, please tell me if you want a beta version that will be awkward to install and possibly run or wait for an unspecified length of time for something more complete.
That is not a sarcastic or retorical question! - I really need to know!

The route is currently 80 miles of completely sceniked mainline from Carlisle (Upperby) to Lanark Junction (north of Carstairs) - including a mile or so long spur of the GSW mainline to Gretna Green. There is also a lot of additional track in place but needs much work and signalling.

Let the debate begin...

Keith

Ultimately, Keith, I think it should be your call . However, I am sure I speak on behalf of everyone when we say that we are dieing for this route haha. Maybe you should give us a list like there was for Wales and Borders and see how that works as a Beta? And then upload the finished article once you are happy with it and the assets the GARL provides?

cheers,
Mark

Regards freeware assets this is certainly an issue that needs to be thrashed out. My firm belief is if they are uploaded for general use, then the licence should effectively be that as for MSTS - they can be included in a route distribution providing it is not for profit. Obviously up to the route creator to ensure no payware inadvertently included in the rwp but any good builder keeps track of who's assets they are using. The only downside is an increased file size with assets which the user may already have in their central Railworks repository, or of obsoleting a newer version.

What Railworks needs is a central, checking "smart" file library like the DLS.

As regards losing the way, the following is just an example of the projects I've looked at starting and laid aside over the last few weeks/months:
Adirondack Line - TS2006
Two German routes - RW.
Potash Line - RW.
Inverness to Aviemore - RW.
Crouch Valley - TS2010.
Ally Pally/Northern Heights - RW
Nicky Line - RW.

Completely unfocused and lacking in direction, so don't despair Keith, you're not alone.

And now just finished extracting terrain/maps for the Yellowstone Park Railroad in TS2010 - wonder how far that will get! Though it's more of a test to see if I can get Surveyor in TS2010 working on the lappy as Crouch Valley slowed to a crawl, possibly as a result of too many 5m grids. So the YPR will test if 10m grid functions okay, or if Auran really stuffed the optimisation this time round.

Having seen the video on you tube of the route i think its extremely nice. Certinaly its "BVE-esque". Many routes have been sucessfully packaged up to get them working correctly. Maybe at some point you should get a small group of testers together and do some testing together.

can someone shed some light about the abbreviations GARL and DLS

GARL - Glasgow Airport Rail Link

DLS - Download Station (Trainz)

... Flicks switch...

http://www.garl.totalizemedia.co.uk/

Bullet399 wrote:can someone shed some light about the abbreviations GARL and DLS

bigvern wrote:What Railworks needs is a central, checking "smart" file library like the DLS.

1000% agreed.

But this can, ihmo, only be provided by railsimulator.com. Would be nice if a railsimulator.com official could be involve in this debate.

The GARL thing isn't a very good solution for freeware developers as there are multiple installs of RW.

There is an "event" fast approaching that should be kept in mind by everyone, I'm not getting at your thoughts here Keith, I'm just stating the facts.

What I'm posting here is fact and it will be proven to be true after the next General Election In April or May,there are going to be drastic cuts in almost everything, those earning £20,000 a year will be hit by tax increases etc.
Pensioners will have the 2.5% increase in 2010 announced by our own "Darling" taken back by another dept, this was announced just after
Darlings Pre-Budget speech.

A well known BBC reporter on this stated that there will be cuts in 35 government depts, and they will be massive, jobs, and very probably wages.
The Irish Government had 2 critical announcements in 2009, everything was cut, wages, jobs, eg, the second had ALL wages cut by between 10 and 30%.

The outcome of it all is that people will have to cut down on things a lot.
For example, I spent £45 on assets for a Scenario 2 weeks ago, I'll not be in a position to do that again.

I say release when your ready, with a clear conscience. The effort of collecting the scenic items is nothing compared to the effort and skill of route building... regards andy

Speaking for myself i think it is good to have a few projects on the go at the same time,ATM i have the almost complete West cornwall 1950,s route,the only hold up on this is finding a modeller who will build Penzance train shed,as well as revamping West Somerset for RW,also a brand new version of West Somerset is on the go,swapping route building from route to route keeps the mind fresh i say.
Regards
Kevin

Hi Keith

My view is probably predictable in that I think it is best to wait until you are 100% happy with the route and you regard it as finished before uploading. The third party asset problem is something that is unlikely to get better in the near future so if you can properly assess the assets required and try to ensure that they continue to be available indefinitely (speak with authors), then get the route thoroughly tested before uploading, you will be less distracted with problems and can move on to a new project.

growler37 wrote:Speaking for myself i think it is good to have a few projects on the go at the same time,ATM i have the almost complete West cornwall 1950,s route,the only hold up on this is finding a modeller who will build Penzance train shed,as well as revamping West Somerset for RW,also a brand new version of West Somerset is on the go,swapping route building from route to route keeps the mind fresh i say.
Regards
Kevin

Yes, never throw anything away or delete something you might regret.

Most of the ones I mentioned are still sitting on the hard drive even just the pre-emptive work, so if you lose motivation in one something else is there to be looked at. I baulked at Ally Pally because. 1. It would have meant building Kings Cross, the Widened Lines tunnel complex and the eponymous Palace itself, not to mention all the LT/LUL bits that needed custom models!

Hmmm... Catenary wise you could see what Horgy comes up with and try and get that in there?

On the subject of Glasgow Central could you put together a simple and inaccurate version, same number of platforms, not great scenic wise but somewhere to terminate ?

Alternativley - you could instead go South a bit more to compensate for the lack of Glasgow?

Hi Route Builders,
It's just my own opinion, but it seems to me the biggest problem all round is the quest for absolute accuracy and reality.
Is the West Cornwall route really on hold just because of the lack of an accurate train shed for Penzance? Isn't it better to release that route with a stop gap roof, or no roof at all, and let the user go into edit and replace it at a later date when one becomes available?
Reading this thread, there seem to be a lot of routes put to one side because of the difficulty in having every structure etc absolutely accurate. At the same time posters elsewhere moan about the lack of routes for RailWorks compared with MSTS etc.
So long as you provide a list of freeware and payware assets that you have used, then let the user do the work of finding them! Isn't it time consuming enough building your route, and then creating scenarios without delaying the project even further by having to provide links to find all the assets you've used? (Why not release your route without scenarios anyway?)
There are those 'game players' who want everything provided for them with no effort required at all on their own part. And they soon moan if everything isn't just to their liking. If you are providing free routes and scenarios, don't pander to them! Take a leaf out of Sly's book. If they don't like your efforts they can delete them! There will be many many more who will appreciate them.
regards Ted.