Atomic Systems

Apologies for posting this in "General" but it will probably get more coverage than in Scenery Creation, not many people scroll down that far!

I may have mentioned that I was pondering creating a new terrain texture set for RW. Unfortunately this has hit a bit of a brick wall as there seems to be very little documentation as to "how". A few references to Wang tiles (whatever they are) but no pictures and certainly no step by step idiots guide.

So my thoughts have turned to making terrtex decals (I suppose in similar vein to the old MSTS tiling squares). These might also look better on vertical or near vertical surfaces where the textures look stretched anyway.
So the simple $64,000 question(s) are:

1. Armed with 3D Canvas and PSP7 is it possible to make a decal at all, or do I need some fancy high end programme?
2. Can anyone explain step by step the process for creating a decal?

bigvern wrote:Apologies for posting this in "General" but it will probably get more coverage than in Scenery Creation, not many people scroll down that far!

I may have mentioned that I was pondering creating a new terrain texture set for RW. Unfortunately this has hit a bit of a brick wall as there seems to be very little documentation as to "how". A few references to Wang tiles (whatever they are) but no pictures and certainly no step by step idiots guide.

So my thoughts have turned to making terrtex decals (I suppose in similar vein to the old MSTS tiling squares). These might also look better on vertical or near vertical surfaces where the textures look stretched anyway.
So the simple $64,000 question(s) are:

1. Armed with 3D Canvas and PSP7 is it possible to make a decal at all, or do I need some fancy high end programme?
2. Can anyone explain step by step the process for creating a decal?

Hi bigvern,

I made some but with Max...
Was in the early days when I saw we did have too few terrain textures.
Wang tiles etc. are explained in (early) documentation of RS.
My problem was to implement them in RS keeping the original textures.
Seperate decals is no problem.



problem in RW > "flashing"
** these tiles are seamed (?)

Hi,

Try this thread.........

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 18&t=77230

Much of it is about creating Goggle Earth decals. However it also explains about creating the decal itself. For the Terrtex you could probably take a screenshot in RW for low resolution decals and as Theo says above the RW help docs explain about wang tiles. Make sure you have a black alpha border of 1 to 2 pixels thick around the decal image border to prevent decal edge 'bleed-through' onto the RW scenery.
You can use ordinary programs like PSP to create the image and alpha layer.

Cheers
Paul

Thanks Paul, now I just have to find the DDS plug in for PSP7. Incidentally I tried using DDS Converter a couple of days ago to create a splash screen for my route and it doesn't work (why can't developers stick with proprietary file formats!).

Hi Vern,

I bet you could go from tga to ace and then use the blueprint editor to create the decal. The Adobe Photoshop ACE plugin works in PSP. ToACe can convert tga so I don't think you necessarily need the PSP plugins to do the conversion for you.

Cheers
Paul

Hi Vern,

Perhaps you should consider using the decals produced by RWDecal if you are needing decals for a real place. The picture below shows a view of Berwick across the Tweed estuary. The whole of the town, the mudflats and the sandspit to the right of the lighthouse are all produced using decals.



These came out looking much better in the simulator than I ever expected.

Mike

Now that is an interesting possibility...

mikesimpson wrote:Hi Vern,

Perhaps you should consider using the decals produced by RWDecal if you are needing decals for a real place. The picture below shows a view of Berwick across the Tweed estuary. The whole of the town, the mudflats and the sandspit to the right of the lighthouse are all produced using decals.

These came out looking much better in the simulator than I ever expected.

Mike

Mike, could please tell me your settings of RWDecal.
If have shifts of roads or other scenery inside decals...

Thank you.
Theo.

A couple of further thoughts...

There seems to be some thought that using decals in lieu of terrain textures could adveresly affect performance. However for areas where there's not much in the way of other 3D objects (e.g. the desert) I can't see this as a major issue.

I presume terrain decals cling to the terrain as opposed to water decals which lay flat - will the two interface satisfactorily?

Is there still an issue with "Z fighting" or decals being slightly raised above the surface or has this been fixed?

I'm going to buy the fully licensed version of RW Decal later today, in the meantime I wonder if the author could be persuaded to expand the scope of the tool to work on any tga or bitmap, e.g. a suitably doctored Mayang texture and not just GE.

Yes Vern, the wiki needs fleshing out with all the images on many subjects on wiki.
However, there is a Rail Simulator document (if you still have them, if not they are on our legacy page) that steps you through the terrain texture process.
Also you do not need to make wang tiles if you don't want to, however the tiling may be an issue as you may get the carpet effect.

regards

Derek

I will certainly track those down and have a read Derek, but the decal idea has got me intrigued - certainly as a means of texturing terrain in the background or as I say for steep vertical faces where the terr-textures become stretched. Presumably a decal created in RW Decal from a specific location in GE for the purpose of generic scenery (e.g. a rock formation) can be reused or tiled at other locations as well?

Where the method might fall down, particularly for the US, is where GE images at the same resolution have been taken from different sources so you get some washed out looking, while others are more vibrant. Also you wouldn't be able to make seasonal variations but in an arid climate that's not a major issue.

One small problem with keeping decals and packaging/distributing them with a route is that it is forbidden by the Google Earth usage policy. I saw it mentioned on installation of the RW Decal tool.

Hiya,

Some food for thought:

• A RailWorks MixMap Tile is 97Kb
  • The Cajon Pass route has 724 mixmap tiles that take up just 68Mb
• A Satellite Image Decal comes in the region of 1~4Mbs from the ones Ive been creating, and they arent a minimum of 1024m x 1024m in size
  • Mapping the town of Woking with 12 decals came to 48Mb

Regards

Darpor wrote:One small problem with keeping decals and packaging/distributing them with a route is that it is forbidden by the Google Earth usage policy. I saw it mentioned on installation of the RW Decal tool.

That's poured the yellow liquid on the finely sliced fried potatoes then...

Back to my original theory then of creating terrain decals from textures (Mayang is okay so long as used for freeware) so as I said maybe the RW Decal guy could look at expanding the programme to facilitate this (well worth another donation).

Darpor wrote:One small problem with keeping decals and packaging/distributing them with a route is that it is forbidden by the Google Earth usage policy. I saw it mentioned on installation of the RW Decal tool.

Amen.
(amen = Latin en means I do agree)

But decals are a big help.
I wonder what people do without these to make a real-world-route.