Detach coaches, run round, re-attach. Is it possible?

[nobkins]

Hi All,

I am trying to create a scenario where you arrive at a destination, detach the coaches. Pull forward and off to a turntable to spin the loco round. Then run back past the coaches and re-attach.

I can do the "drop off" coaches but the problem occurs with the turntable. The user can easily be given an instructions saying "turn the loco on the turntable" but how do you tell the despatcher that is what has happened. If the despatcher does not know then It things the loco is running backwards from then on.

Also... Is it possible to say couple back up to the coaches you dropped of earlier. Again a message can be given to the user but because the "coaches" did not start in the station where I dropped them off, I do not seem to be able to "tell" the scenario to pick them up again.

I am probably missing something with both the turntable and drop off / recollect coaches but I can't work it out. Any ideas people?

Thanks

[AndiS]

I am not sure I understand your problem with coupling the coaches. There is the consist operation or couple-up instruction, where you tell the user to attach this and that wagon to the end (or front) of the train - isn't it?

The dispatcher not understanding the orientation of the engine may become a problem in connection with the above couple instruction.

If the dispatcher now understand turntables, it would be another quite relevant bugfix not announced. Last thing I heard was that it gets confused by the fact that the track rotates on a turntable, and that you could not route AI over it.

Anyway, you should put a go-via instruction right to the turntable. At least this spring, using a waypoint instead would not be a good idea because the dispatcher did not understand the bit with the returning from there. Anyway, this instruction would set the path to the turntable. Now, if you leave the turntable via another track, then you are lost again, unless all switches to the train are manual ones. If you just turn the engine 180° and come back on the same track, then you can put another go-via instruction to the place used as shunt neck (can be route track or shunt neck or some siding, anyway, the place where the engine would change direction before coupling to the train. Spelling it out like this should make him set the switches, but, like I said, if he understands the turntable now, it would be a major fix.

[TjoeTjoe]

Hi Jim,

I do not have personal experience with all I mention below. However I did find something in the Timetable viewer manual which might give you some options to get it resolved

I can do the "drop off" coaches but the problem occurs with the turntable. The user can easily be given an instructions saying "turn the loco on the turntable" but how do you tell the despatcher that is what has happened. If the despatcher does not know then It things the loco is running backwards from then on.

There are Advanced Scenario instruction, one of them is
Allow Reversing - This option is checked by default which means that the train is allowed to reverse in order to complete the instruction. In most cases it is best to leave this option checked. This option can be unchecked if services exhibit unusual behaviour when finding a path. For example, an AI passenger train reversing into a platform when it shouldn’t. When unchecked, the service will try to find a path without the need to reverse.

In short: this suggests that the next instruction after turning the loco at the turntable should have this Allow Reversing disabled. However, this would give you problems to couple with the wagons again (read: get the Add Cars to back being set to Completed). For this you could try to give a Stop at/Go via instruction to the turntable succeeded by another Go via instruction (passing along your consist to be picked up). The last one needs Reversing disallowed. After that, the Add to back instruction should be useable without any problems as far as I can see

Also... Is it possible to say couple back up to the coaches you dropped of earlier. Again a message can be given to the user but because the "coaches" did not start in the station where I dropped them off, I do not seem to be able to "tell" the scenario to pick them up again.

This is what I found in the Drop Off description:
NOTE: The rail vehicles being dropped off may not, at the point of authoring the scenario, be attached to the player service. For example; the “Drop Off” is preceded by an “Add to Back” instruction. Because all instructions are authored when all rolling stock is at their start positions, the wagons to be dropped off will be in their original start positions in a siding. This has no impact on setting up the instruction as the wagons will be coupled to the player service at the point in the scenario when the drop off instruction becomes current

So from this I would say, that first of all, the wagons may not be attached to the loco at start of the scenario in the first place.
You need to add them to the back/front first somewhere in the scenario, before you can drop them off. And after that you should be able to add them to your service again.

Hope it helps you somehow

Best regards
Erwin

[nobkins]

The dispatcher not understanding the orientation of the engine may become a problem in connection with the above couple instruction.

Yep this is essentially my problem.

As I can't tell the despatcher to "turn" the train, I can only tell the despatcher to go as far as the turntable (which has only one connected line). So.... the user turns the train (after the dispatcher issues a popup saying "turn train") and drives back to the carriages and tries to connect to the carriages. I have no problem getting the route set.

The problem arrises in that the dispatcher thinks the train has NOT been turned. So the dispatcher would have to be told to couple carriages to the front of the engine. But in reality the train HAS been turned. so the user actually couples them to the back (remember I have run arround the train as we want to head out of the station where I left my carriages the same way we came in).

Hope that is a little clearer. I think the issue of dropping off and then re-coupling thge same coaches may have been resolved by TjoeTjoe post (thanks - will try later).

so in summary.

I can (probably) tell despatcher to re-couple my coaches after I drop them off, but I can't get the despatcher to know that I have turned my engine.

So the queston is (I think!!) Is there anyway to get the dispatcher to use a turn table (with a single line connected) to turn an engine so that it "knows" the engine has been turned.

Hope I am making it clear. I am not always good at explaining stuff.

Jim

[hertsbob]

Hi

I'm not sure that it matters. I reckon you'd be OK just to issue the instruction to add the coaches to the correct end of the loco once it's been turned. Not that I've ever tried it, you understand.

Good luck.

Bob

[emrhd01]

Hi Jim,

I can only say I have made a Scenario for Vern's Heartbeat Route where you start at Pickering with a RSC Jubilee pointing South, the first thing you have to do is run to the Turntable and 'turn' the Loco (so now pointing North, to reduce the flange wear ) and then you go to the Platform and couple to the Coaches standing there. You couple to the Coaches using the RW "Couple to rear" command, which it does and says completed successfully. I have not told the Dispatcher I have gone to the turntable the first command is to go to the Platform where the Coaches are with no tick in the box so it can take 'any' Route to the Coaches.

Now the "Dispatcher" has not been told that the Loco has been turned so in theory it has coupled to the wrong end of the Loco (if you see what I mean) but the Scenario runs OK by just using the right Coupling command for the correct end of the Loco. Now I know that this is not exactly the same as what you have because I did not uncouple from the Coaches in the first place, but the turning of the Loco is the same.

So in short the way I see it is the Dispatcher does not need to know which way round the Loco is, just that it requires the correct "Coupling" command to used when coupling.

Hope that helps.

[nobkins]

Thanks emrhd01 and Bob,

All clear now (I think) I will give this a go tonight.

Cheers

Jim

[pdeee]

If you look at my S&D scenarios, you will find a Templecombe to Evercreech, where you just run round, re-couple and return to Templecombe, also goods train from the Radstock to Evercreech, turn engine on turntable, re-couple and drive back north again.

[AndiS]

As I understood it, the Allow Reversing is not for turning the train on the turntable but for permitting paths found by the dispatcher to contain a reversing, i.e, reversing back over a trailing switch. But actually, I never experimented with turntables after reading about the difficulties.

If the hints above don't help anyway, you might look for some "order is important"-or-not flag. I vaguely remember something like that, which was explained as "the order of wagons in the consist must be as given - or not". Should be right beside the Reversing tick box - can't remember now. Anyway, that should remove the dispatcher's last doubts whether the coaches are on an acceptable end of the engine.

Anyway, I would say that if you can make the dispatcher set the switches, then you are part of the lucky part of the population. If the coupling instruction would still fail, you could just put a go-to message there, and once the train is stopped, you show "after coupling to the train, depart for ...", and all will be fine for the user. Few people will be stupid enough to leave the coaches there and do the next passenger stops without them. And you are not creating a 100% cheat-proof part of the world leadership registration scheme.