UKTS Community CD's

[NeutronIC]

Hi all,

Now that the first RailWorks community CD (South Devon Banks) is under way thanks to John Griffiths, Kevin Martin, Digital Traction, Matt Ivey and many many others I thought it might be worth while posting something on here in case other aspiring route builders start thinking about this as they work on their own routes.

There are a couple of restrictions / rules regarding what can and can't go on a UKTS Community CD - this has always been the case with MSTS but it's a little more easy to fall foul of them now in RailWorks so I thought i'd clarify it here. Note: These ONLY apply to routes that you would like to put on to a Community CD, if that doesn't interest you then it's entirely up to you what you use of course. If at a later date you decide you do want it on a CD then any violations would need to be rectified first.

The biggest point is that a Community CD must install and run completely on its own, with the exception of official core patches/updates to the simulator it cannot require any further downloads or any other purchases. To do so would mean the CD was half a product and those buying it would no doubt feel a bit cheated. Everything that the route depends on must be included on the CD, even if it's just a "lite" version. This means, for example, that you cannot use the RSC Foliage Pack or the Isle of Wight Track etc, as we cannot get permission to include those on the CD (and I certainly couldn't afford to license them). Similarly included scenarios can only use stock that comes supplied - though we do some times include other activities on an MSTS disc that require other things but those are separately installed.

Permissions - it's also obvious perhaps that all permissions must be sought, even if the readme says that it's granted to do whatever it's still nice to get in touch and make sure they're happy and just let them know how their work is being used. If someone says no, then that means no - either replace it or the project is stalled. If you can't get in touch with someone then it should be considered an implicit no, so while you're building now it might be wise to start gathering permissions even if you haven't decided how you want to distribute the route yet.

Ok so how do the CD's work...

Either you can build all the bits, compile it up and then we just wrap it in an installer and test - OR you can just say "yeah sure go for it" and then we can go and try to build up a CD as we've done with South Devon Banks and get the permissions ourselves.

We only put CD's out if they are of a sufficient "value" (of the non monetary sort) to the average user, particularly as most RailWorks routes are pretty small in size on average, there's less reason to create the CD's other than to bundle stuff together and have it all self install. The CD's are also a way to provide standardised levels of stock that scenario authors can use freely knowing that their audience almost certainly has them already installed. They're great for the newcomers too, plus it means we have something we can offer to offline users in a purely CD form that they can mail-order.

We also try to find cabs and sounds to put on things to make the items that bit better, it's a bit less hassle that the end user no longer needs to deal with in order to fully experience the best of what's out there.

Costs?

There's no cost to have a route "published", but the CD itself is sold for £4.50 inc vat, Postage and Packing and 1 months premium subscription bundle. We do not pay revenue share to contributors, there just isn't the money left to manage it. We also give the CD's away completely free of charge at shows, some times up to 50% of a CD's total distribution can be in this free form.

So what about the contributors?

We are happy to send a free copy of the finished disc to all contributors. We offer some varying amount of premium subscription back to the contributors depending on their level of contribution - i.e. the route author gets more than someone who included a signpost, but hopefully everyone gets at least something. There are some contributors in the MSTS community that have lifetime subscriptions now.


I get questions about the CD's from the MSTS side of things occasionally and with route authors starting to kick the tyres of RailWorks and think about what their plans might be I thought it would be good to set things out and at least let you know that the option exists - it's up to you if you want to take advantage of it or not.

Feel free to ask any questions!

Matt.

[bigvern]

Thanks for the offer Matt, which I will bear in mind.

However, without necessarily opening this topic up to debate on wider matters, I would suggest for RS/RW the need for community CD's has receded a bit. Would add that I always was and remain a staunch defender of the idea for MSTS, either when doing it myself or after contracting out to UKTS. However the main reasons for MSTS routes going on CD were:
1. The bloatware nature of MSTS routes when even a short route came in with a hefty distribution size. One thing Kuju got right with RS/RW was to get the file sizes compacted a bit so we are talking 10's of Mb rather than 100's of Mb.
2. Far more people probably have broadband connections now than back in 2003/2004 when we we struggling on dial up with 4 kb/s download speed and 3p a minute access charges. I can grab a 100Mb file in just a few minutes. Still need to be aware of usage restrictions (it's £1 a gig over 10Gb on BT basic service) but much better than it was.

As regards Rai Simulator/RS-Reworked. At the moment, most of the routes in development are fairly small. I have two currently being worked on but neither amounts to much more than about 20 linear miles. Simply the nature of the beast and again, without going off at a tangent, building a long route in RS (for me) is a daunting prospect which is why I've announced so much vapourware recently. Even with a few custom objects, station signs etc. bunged in it's probably only going to be 30 - 40Mb.

The caveat that all required items must either be in the default route or permission granted freeware, again is not likely to happen any time soon. As debated elsewhere the freeware scene for RS(RW) route "components" has simply not taken off, leaving us no choice but to resource items where we can find them - the RS foliage pack, the IOW, 3D Trains trees, Rascal & Cottonwood and so on and so forth. Until that radically changes you are not going to find many routes comprising solely of default or freely distributable items. Of course there is the argument (probably best debated separately) that RS.com should have predicted this and if they really wanted RW to be a "Special Edition" included IOW, the foliage pack and any other add-ons they could get hold of.

[NeutronIC]

Hi Vern,

Great points, however I wanted to just add my views on a couple of the points you raise.

MSTS routes being bloated - My gut feeling is that when you have a good sized RailWorks route including the custom scenery for it, it's not going to work out much smaller and may even be bigger because of the extra detail, more objects etc. Look how big the Cajon Pass download was - about 400 meg? And that route is nowhere near as big as Thames Mersey, Dorset Coast etc.

RailSim/RailWorks routes are not yet particularly big and certainly there's little point bundling a small route, but if RailWorks takes off then there's no reason why big routes won't start to happen eventually. South Devon Banks was the first route that I felt was sufficiently long that it would justify being put on a disc.

Also, don't forget that the CD's are not just about the routes - they're also about stock and scenarios. For example, the South Devon Banks CD will have a great selection of GWR stock on it all collected together.

Regarding the issue of not including payware add-ons, I don't see how it's reasonable to do anything else otherwise the caveat list and total cost of purchase for a little community cd will be laughable. It's a little bit surreal anyway in my view but I certainly understand why it's gone that way. That said, as things develop and more scenery is produced, route authors will be able to use RW Tools to swap out payware scenery and replace it with freeware (if they wish of course) and over time the problem will go away.

Lastly, while the online populace are faster and more connected than ever before, there's still both an offline populace and an "its too hard" populace. The CD's fit with their needs very nicely, distribution at the shows as well as via mail order means that community RailSim/RailWorks add-ons can reach further and wider than they might being restricted to just the 'net, so it helps more people enjoy the hobby.

Matt.

[spontin]

There is another point of view to take on the exclusion of the licenced add-ons (eg IoW & Foliage package).
In building the Talyllyn I have taken the decison to include items from the foliage package (but not IoW) becasue they do enhance the visual effect but I am also including similar standard core items alongside the Foliage stuff. The reasoning is that someone who does not have or want to buy the foliage pack can still use the route but will see a "low res" view of the route. Ie the fences & hedges will mark the boundaries & effects but users who have the foliage pack will see the "high-res" view. This seems to me to be an ideal compromise solution.
I chose not to use IoW items as this is a high cost package whereas the Foliage is low cost and I would say can be viewed as a worthwhile extra option for most users.
I agree fully that you cannot expect the community CDs to include these purchaseable add-ons but route builders could look upon building a route in a "low-res" / "high-res" perspective.

Steve

[NeutronIC]

That's an excellent approach Steve, since RailSim/RailWorks don't fail if assets are missing then that at least can mean the route is still enjoyable to all but that much more enjoyable if the extras are purchased.

Matt.

[NeutronIC]

Just wanted to add now that i'm getting underway with compiling the South Devon Banks disc - we're already over 200 megabytes of RPK files and included in the list are 10-15 ZIP's that are not so trivial to install so there really isn't *that* much difference between MSTS and RS/RW after all...

BTW the disc will be a joint Rail Simulator / Rail Works release to work with both, and there should be a couple of extra scenarios for RailWorks users.

Matt.

[smarty2]

Hi, just an aside really as i am an observer not a route builder , I have south devon banks in RW's but it does not work? even trying to edit a scenario crashes the sim, one hopes this will be resolved when the reason for the crash is determined?

Mart

[charlie99]

With regrds to payware scenery RW has made it easier as they have included some of the more essential parts of the foliage pack in the game meaning I am no longer going to use the foliage pack for my routes unless it is absoloubtley necessary.

[NeutronIC]

I can't remember where I put the fix to that - look for my last few posts on the forum and you should find it, it was posted today.

Basically I think if you install v9 first then v10 over the top you should be good to go, that's the "big hammer" fix to the problem anyway

I've notified jetgriff.

Matt.

[alanch]

Basically I think if you install v9 first then v10 over the top you should be good to go, that's the "big hammer" fix to the problem anyway
Matt.

Yes that works Matt - the thread is here http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 14&t=95510 .

[smarty2]

Thankyou gentlemen most appreciated
Mart

[England345]

Hi all Brought MSTS about 2 years ago find this site by chance, my boys and i really enjoy driving all the different trains, over all the different routes, but other then that we dont have much clue how to download and make things work. We saw the CD ordering part of the site and we have purchase 4 so far. We have RS and now RW so yes any CD are welcome here and i would buy most that comes out. So we non computer people look forward to these CD. Next purchase for msts we be DCv6 and any for RW.

[dean1986]

Great idea putting RS/RW routes on CD. WIll capture a much wider audience.

Dean

[drwho200]

Feel free to use the RailSim Cross Country route from January and a new route Cross Country Major is coming to RailWorks, work commencing today! If you have a deadline please PM me or otherwise just watch the File Library!

I no longer have RailSim installed but Cross Country v2.0.1 works fine.

[Trainguy76]

Sorry a stupid question,

What is meant by CD?

Is the meaning of it compact disc like you stick in your computer.

Sorry, im just unsure.