East Manchester - WIP Announcement

[Chock]

Nice to see someone else having a crack at a Manchester route (which is what I'm doing, that being the route from Buxton via Hazel Grove through Manchester's platform 13 and 14 and on to Liverpool Lime Street through Oxford Road and Deansgate).

What you'll be best doing is popping into the Ian Allen Bookshop on Manchester Piccadilly Approach next time you are in Manchester, and getting hold of this book: Quail Track Diagrams Vol 4 'Midlands and North West' (ISBN 0-9549866-0-1), which features accurate rail maps of the area as far as signalling, points, speed limits and gradients etc is concerned.

Whilst you are in there, you might also want to look at the 225 Studios DVDs they have there, which are a bit pricey, but feature a lot Cab Rides around the North West including some through Piccadilly (website http://www.225studios.com). Then what you'll need is Google Earth and RW Decal (preferably the payware version since it is better), so you can create decent route decals at a resolution good enough to aid accurate track placement.

Then you'll want to download the relevant terrain elevation data gathered during the Space Shuttle SRTM flight conducted by the Shuttle Endeavor over an eleven-day period in 2000, where it used a topographical radar to map the Earth's surface elevation, this data being freely available and able to be imported into Railworks in order to create the terrain elevation accurately, most of Manchester being 150 feet or so above sea level, but with some variances that are worth getting accurate for the right gradients since a Pacer is no rocket ship and does have to give it some welly on steeper gradients.

Also worth getting hold of, is the Modern Signalling Handbook by Stanley Hall, which is a big help in understanding what signals do exactly what and how ATP works etc, and in fact it does actually feature a pic of the multi-aspect signalling at Manchester. Note that there are some big operational changes on the way at Manchester fairly soon too, since the line to Liverpool is going to get further electrification which will mean a lot of stuff will be getting rerouted all over the place whilst that line is of limited availability. If you are feeling adventurous and futuristic, you could even add the proposed additional platform that Piccadilly is supposedly going to get in a couple of years' time, for the trains that go to Manchester Airport.

Al

[05hunterd]

The creative talents of the RailWorks community edge ever closer to building my "home" route, the stub of the former Woodhead Route (closed 30 years ago this week) between Hadfield/Glossop and Manchester. I will be following with interest and hope I can be of use helping to gather reference material, particularly around the Guide Bridge area as I work at a factory overlooking the station and yard.

To get you started on your quest for cabrides, check out this video on YouTube. It's filmed from the rear cab of a 323 between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge. Other videos from the same user cover much of the rest of the line.

Hi TractorBasher!

It's certainly something I'm enthusiastic about doing - Guide Bridge isn't too far from my college .

At the moment, I'm looking for sign textures - I already have Rose Hill and Fairfield as well as station plans/photos (signs and stops, colours etc.)

Many thanks for the video too - I'm gonna see about getting a return cabride (no harm in trying ) from MAN-RSH some time soon

Also thinking about checking out a hiker's GPS unit that can record height profiles and upload them to a PC...

hi Dave
for your search try the woodhead site for photos track plans. it was closed today as a mark of respect for the anniversary of its closure.
this came from a search for woodley junction signal box diagram http://www.lymmobservatory.net/railways ... agrams.htm this has a gradient profile on it plus a few other interesting bits for those considering building the woodhead line.
regards phil t

Cheers for the link Phil - useful stuff

As above - I'm looking into a GPS unit that can download profiles like the one you mention (a height vs distance graph). Comparing it to the SRTM data, it's not that bad (the DEM I mean) - its resolution though doesn't show, of course, the fact that the track is cut well into the ground (certainly between Fairfield and MAN anyway)

David

Nice to see someone else having a crack at a Manchester route (which is what I'm doing, that being the route from Buxton via Hazel Grove through Manchester's platform 13 and 14 and on to Liverpool Lime Street through Oxford Road and Deansgate).

What you'll be best doing is popping into the Ian Allen Bookshop on Manchester Piccadilly Approach next time you are in Manchester, and getting hold of this book: Quail Track Diagrams Vol 4 'Midlands and North West' (ISBN 0-9549866-0-1), which features accurate rail maps of the area as far as signalling, points, speed limits and gradients etc is concerned.

Whilst you are in there, you might also want to look at the 225 Studios DVDs they have there, which are a bit pricey, but feature a lot Cab Rides around the North West including some through Piccadilly (website http://www.225studios.com). Then what you'll need is Google Earth and RW Decal (preferably the payware version since it is better), so you can create decent route decals at a resolution good enough to aid accurate track placement.

Then you'll want to download the relevant terrain elevation data gathered during the Space Shuttle SRTM flight conducted by the Shuttle Endeavor over an eleven-day period in 2000, where it used a topographical radar to map the Earth's surface elevation, this data being freely available and able to be imported into Railworks in order to create the terrain elevation accurately, most of Manchester being 150 feet or so above sea level, but with some variances that are worth getting accurate for the right gradients since a Pacer is no rocket ship and does have to give it some welly on steeper gradients.

Also worth getting hold of, is the Modern Signalling Handbook by Stanley Hall, which is a big help in understanding what signals do exactly what and how ATP works etc, and in fact it does actually feature a pic of the multi-aspect signalling at Manchester. Note that there are some big operational changes on the way at Manchester fairly soon too, since the line to Liverpool is going to get further electrification which will mean a lot of stuff will be getting rerouted all over the place whilst that line is of limited availability. If you are feeling adventurous and futuristic, you could even add the proposed additional platform that Piccadilly is supposedly going to get in a couple of years' time, for the trains that go to Manchester Airport.

Al

Hi Al,

Ah yes I know where you mean - I stop in there whenever I'm in town...only for Aviation books normally but I check out the Hornby stuff too So I'll certainly be checking it out (I need to get some stuff from Dawson's which should be in by Tuesday)

Well I have all the SRTM data - and it's all used and aligned with the RWDecals stuff (only have the free but for me it's good enough if I have GE open too to compare positions - AWS units are surprisingly easy to spot and place with it )

I'll look into that as well whilst I'm there

Cheers,
David

Just a quick one for all - I'm thinking of getting 5-mins of recording from within MAN to convert into an ambient sound for placement - comments and hints/tips appreciated

[TractorBasher]

There's another video here which may be useful. A 3-part journey from Marple to Piccadilly in 1998 filmed from the front seat of a 101. The window is a bit on the mucky side so it's not all that easy to see, but it could help with the placement of signals and such over the relevant sections you're looking to create.

[Phil160]

TractorBasher
thanks for the vid, brought back a few memories of my youth and helped a little with my route building.

Dave
ill send you over my markers for the line through romiley to rose hill and Marple also the ones for Piccadilly to gorton, but because Ive come through reddish i haven't finished marking out the rest of the Hyde line yet. it is a little more difficult to do the gradients though Hyde since Ive got nothing concrete to work off. the plan for me was to lay up to godley and back down to woodley down to complete the first two legs of the Hyde triangle that i have gradient info for, then fill in through Hyde central. Ive not worked out the bits from woodley to romiley yet ether, this may be a bit easier for you since it doesn't form part of a large triangle as it did in the 50s. which is where Ive run into a few problems.

as for the terrain, i started on the old NASA Dem's which were poor, and required a lot of hand carving, the1:50000 OS Dem's are much better and parts of romiley were spot on, but it still lacks in detail in the steeper parts of the route the as you push past Marple and new mills requires a big shovel to dig out the gorge.
regards Phil t

[05hunterd]

Hello again folks,

I'm using the OS DEM stuff available in the bits on UKTS - if I've mentioned NASA that's just me being dim

Regarding gradients and stuff, I'm tempted by two (well, three) options:

- Applying to access the NESA data as a software developer (probably a UKTS admin would be better at doing this and representing the community)

- Purchasing a decent cycling GPS and just going MAN-RSH and back with it and getting the gradient and spot-height data from that. That way I can work it around the OS data and accurately porduce the track, leaving the DEM around it (so I get good representations of the cuttings through Fairfield and Guide Bridge etc.)

- I'm also currently looking at bikehike.co.uk - it produces gradient and elevation data which is workable in the form of graphs - I've just drawn a line over the track and it's given me data, but it is again based on a hybrid of Google Earth and OS Open Data stuff (the same DEM as in the UK terrain files on here - so no real difference)


As it stands now, I am simply painting the terrain, tile-by-tile and doing rough populations with objects, leaving the track till I'm satisfied with the level of accuracy (I'm trying to get as much done as possible before I'm posted next week)

Cheers,
David