Atomic Systems

Sounds like the title for a TV reality show but following on from my other thread about UK routes that are likely to get released, thought it might be beneficial to examine why many projects announced with a huge fanfare, sink into vapourware oblivion after a few weeks. I've been as guilty of that myself over the last two years both in RS/RW and TRS. If we can identify the causes of burnout or lost interest, maybe we can find some solutions and see more routes come through to fruition.

My own particular thought is that it's terribly easy to get carried away with laying track - 60 or 70 miles in 3 or 4 days for simple single line without much in the way of yards. Then it hits you. Bham!! At maybe 4 to 5 miles a week it is going to take 3 or 4 months to terrain paint and 3D place that 3/4 days of track. I have actually experienced a sinking feeling in my gut at the prospect of that and has led to more than one great idea being abandoned before it even got started.

Possible solution? Don't lay all that 70 miles of track at once. Lay 5 or 6 miles, do all the terrain painting and 3D placement before laying the next 5 miles or so. I tried that approach with my TRS West Highland route (though I think it was block post to block post) and it seemed to work. The logic I guess is that even if the overall time ends up the same, the illusion is you have a complete module at the end of each section.

The 3D world myth... One of the things driving routes in OpenBVE is that in all honesty do we really need all that detail, washing lines on posts in gardens 800 metres away? Maybe we need to get back to the whole point of these games, a train driving sim. Your eyes should be focused on that narrow ribbon of track in front and the associated infrastructure, not if that hill in the distance has a copse on top or not. So is there a case for longer routes of severe optimisation with a view to the "pure" driving experience rather than this arty John Constable style 3D landscape painting? (Of course some sort of autogen would help in this respect).

That's just a couple of ideas. Feel free to share and debate.

Some good ideas there Vern,i find myself burnt quite often,quite severly now i've learned the backup lesson


The way i try and avoid it is to just go along so long as i am enjoying myself,if i'm not,i do something i will enjoy,its no secret that you have more patience for something when you find it fun/rewarding. I just keep the goal in my mind (release) and that keeps me going,having 2 routes on the go helps me as if i get fed up of building Exeter i just go to Pontefract instead The other thing is i take breaks of a couple of days at a time,as i did with my yorkshire route,i laid all the track over a week and then left it for around a week before starting on scenery,slow and steady wins the race in my book.

I don't believe in release dates and if someone asks me i ignore them,just do it at my own pace and in my own time,i'm doing it for myself as much as anything.

Cheers,
Mark

I understand you 100% bigvern.
To get some realistic country side it takes me too much time.
I am not a graphic artist or have the talent.
I compare the routes now and then and I see I am not alone.

Some people need only a few strikes of the brush to get the real feel...

After removing the decals, If you are using those, the beauty is GONE.

Without the gradients (the numbers) you are lost.
I did have my hopes with MSTS2 and WOR. But is a "gonner".

It's my old record playing again but we have to few terrain textures too he.

So? I am gettin nowhere

almark wrote:Some good ideas there Vern,i find myself burnt quite often,quite severly now i've learned the backup lesson


The way i try and avoid it is to just go along so long as i am enjoying myself,if i'm not,i do something i will enjoy,its no secret that you have more patience for something when you find it fun/rewarding. I just keep the goal in my mind (release) and that keeps me going,having 2 routes on the go helps me as if i get fed up of building Exeter i just go to Pontefract instead The other thing is i take breaks of a couple of days at a time,as i did with my yorkshire route,i laid all the track over a week and then left it for around a week before starting on scenery,slow and steady wins the race in my book.

I don't believe in release dates and if someone asks me i ignore them,just do it at my own pace and in my own time,i'm doing it for myself as much as anything.

Cheers,
Mark

Haha Mark, if I had 10 routes my problems would stay the same
I admit that I can not afford the same way I did in my real job (I am retired he).

Naturally, people have different ways of doing things but I think that what you are doing there Vern, 5 miles track then 5 miles scenery seems like a happy medium. Since the early RS days I have tried all sorts of different methods, finally settling on a mile for mile basis with the Genesis project. That way, I am never too far ahead of myself and it also means when I show a screenshot, the scene will 99% of the time be always fully built.

Well I think the first "logical" section will be Berwick to Beal Emergency Crossovers which is about 9 miles and hopefully this system will work out.

I guess the other thing is to engage with what you're doing, hopefully the northern ECML will be such a crowd pleaser my rep can't afford not to deliver it...

As an aside, the DE viaduct passes very well for the Royal Border bridge, uncannily so even down to the height (eh, Derek ).

It is certainly do-able Vern and probably a good idea to start from that direction. Going from the other way gives two big obstacles straight away in Newcastle itself and then Heaton Depot, a fairly intimidating task.

You're right! That viaduct isn't a bad replacement after all, the only problem I had was the curved section and the loft not setting correctly meaning I had to fiddle a bit.

I also agree with Vern,
I tend to not lay miles of track all at once, it is better to take on scenery one section at a time. One way of doing this is to use the trackwork as a border, ie lay your track for that section then build all the scenery for one side of the track when this complete then do the other side. This has worked for me in the past.
Another way is using RW Decal, make your decals for your section then place all your 3D objects one square at a time then delete your decals one at a time then you are completing your scenery one decal block at a time.
I find if I do lay many miles of track all at once I start messing around with senarios and running trains & not building the scenery!!!!
Scenery as said earlier looks more daunting whan you have 10 miles or more to build all at once.

I must admit that I went the other route - no pun intended. I laid all of the track for Dublin-Cork first. I think that approach too has advantages as you quickly learn all the tricks as you proceed and there is some satisfaction in being able to drive the full length of the route, even if it is through empty landscape, at an early stage.

I actually do believe that the availability now of RWDecal greatly eases the scenery work. It has certainly improved my productivity since it became available. There is no way that I could have come close to building Edenderry for the Route Challenge in such a short period of time without that tool. Of course, it is only useful if there are high definition images available for the route you are building. In the case of my Dublin to Cork route, I locate decals to approximatly 800 meters each side of the track - that is usually the equivalent of a row or column of 4 or 5 decals. Using the offset tool set to a distance of 800 meters from the track, I set out a tree line to mark the 800 meters boundary. It is actually quite fast then, using the distant hedge asset from the IOW route, to mark out the fields over the decals. I lay the roads/rivers a few meters above the decals so that I can see them and then, using the gradient tool, adjust them to the terrain after the decals are removed. After the decals are removed, I paint the area under the hedges and roads with a dark grass or forest texture and paint a few fields to breakup the green fields. I then add a few houses, trees and bushes at random. Using this method, I find I can complete a 600 - 800 meter distance in an evening session (say four hours).

However, I agree that it can become tiring to be doing only scenicking. I vary the work by doing other tasks, such as building assets or rail vehicles - or just spend an occasional evening running other people's routes.

BFM

That's weird! Had I used RWDecal on my challenge route then there's absolutely no way I would have ever got anywhere near finishing it!!

I have massive issues in knowing when to stop when I'm placing scenery and was rather hoping that the time constraints of the challenge would 'cure' me, which it did temporarily! However I've now reverted to type and if anything the situation is even worse using RWDecal and I find myself lovingly recreating farmyards etc. only to realise that they're completely invisible from anywhere near the tracks. Having said that, I also get a perverse pleasure in getting lost in my own scenery. I generally know I've done enough when I'm flying around and can't find the track!!!

I think it must also be said that there's a massive difference using RWDecal on modern routes vs using it for rose-tinted recreations of the past, which is what I particularly enjoy doing. There's little point for me in having in high-resolution close-up decals when all they'd show is that where I'm trying to build a railway has become an industrial/housing estate!...

I like your idea of setting out tree lines as a marker though. I think I may give that a go.

Cheers

Bob

hertsbob wrote:That's weird! Had I used RWDecal on my challenge route then there's absolutely no way I would have ever got anywhere near finishing it!!

I have massive issues in knowing when to stop when I'm placing scenery and was rather hoping that the time constraints of the challenge would 'cure' me, which it did temporarily! However I've now reverted to type and if anything the situation is even worse using RWDecal and I find myself lovingly recreating farmyards etc. only to realise that they're completely invisible from anywhere near the tracks. Having said that, I also get a perverse pleasure in getting lost in my own scenery. I generally know I've done enough when I'm flying around and can't find the track!!!

I think it must also be said that there's a massive difference using RWDecal on modern routes vs using it for rose-tinted recreations of the past, which is what I particularly enjoy doing. There's little point for me in having in high-resolution close-up decals when all they'd show is that where I'm trying to build a railway has become an industrial/housing estate!...

I like your idea of setting out tree lines as a marker though. I think I may give that a go.

Cheers

Bob

See Bob, when I remove the decals the beauty is gone...
It's soooo nice the look at when they are still there he.

Oh, I don't know... Maybe it's because it's my route, but I don't think it's that bad!


I totally share your view about needing some more ground textures, by the way.

Cheers

Bob

Hi theo

It looks different with the decals gone. More natural think -

hertsbob wrote:Oh, I don't know... Maybe it's because it's my route, but I don't think it's that bad!


I totally share your view about needing some more ground textures, by the way.

Cheers

Bob

You did nice work here Bob.

Oh wow if only i could get my routes like that one day