Why Route Projects Fail?

[theokus]

Hi theo

It looks different with the decals gone. More natural think -

Great job too!

[Acorncomputer]

I have to put my hands up and say using the decals does make the job a lot easier and it does feel a bit like cheating, but it works and for authenticity it is really the only way.

[hertsbob]

Nah, it's not cheating at all!

I actually think Geoff's example is better than mine - fields are easy! It starts to get really messy if you're trying to sort out roads/houses!

Not sure whether anyone else uses or is aware of this website, but I find the birds-eye view (where available) to be very useful when I'm trying to find out the ages of various housing developments and whether to include them in my routes of the past... http://www.aboutmyplace.co.uk/showmap?i ... i=property

Cheers

Bob

[GavNormandale]

the guy who created RWDecal is a god (up there with mike simpson), there is no reason for any of us not to create a decent recreation of any route, albeit with a few extra books to back it up, it just comes down to application and available time,

Gav

[theokus]

I have to put my hands up and say using the decals does make the job a lot easier and it does feel a bit like cheating, but it works and for authenticity it is really the only way.

It sure is Geoff.

About cheating...
I don't think so, it is a way to make the scene as real as it is.
(but depending on the time Google did the "shot"s )

PS. And I am waiting for SAD....
It should be this weekend, he is releasing his route.

[theokus]

the guy who created RWDecal is a god (up there with mike simpson), there is no reason for any of us not to create a decent recreation of any route, albeit with a few extra books to back it up, it just comes down to application and available time,

Gav

Yes.

And I do need somebody to kick my a... now and them

[Otterbear2]

That's weird! Had I used RWDecal on my challenge route then there's absolutely no way I would have ever got anywhere near finishing it!!

I have massive issues in knowing when to stop when I'm placing scenery and was rather hoping that the time constraints of the challenge would 'cure' me, which it did temporarily! However I've now reverted to type and if anything the situation is even worse using RWDecal and I find myself lovingly recreating farmyards etc. only to realise that they're completely invisible from anywhere near the tracks. Having said that, I also get a perverse pleasure in getting lost in my own scenery. I generally know I've done enough when I'm flying around and can't find the track!!!

I think it must also be said that there's a massive difference using RWDecal on modern routes vs using it for rose-tinted recreations of the past, which is what I particularly enjoy doing. There's little point for me in having in high-resolution close-up decals when all they'd show is that where I'm trying to build a railway has become an industrial/housing estate!...

I like your idea of setting out tree lines as a marker though. I think I may give that a go.

Cheers

Bob

LOL, I've got the same problem with overworking the details...I just spent several hours working on the look of a stream...that you cant see from the tracks...LOL.
Every now and then, I have to run one of the default routes, and that reminds me that I don't have to put every dog house and bird house in the decal into my route.
I do use the one mile completion at a time plan. I've tried laying all the track first, but then I ran into problems of remembering where the bridges were and such...ends up I need the decals to see where/what I'm doing...so if I'm going through all that trouble...I may as well finish it. So, I go that route from mile one and it still gets disheartening sometimes...miles to go...but, its nice to know that the route is "finished" up to where your working.

It's been a great help reading this, and knowing I'm not the only one facing these challenges.

[bigvern]

Although I bought Decal, I haven't actually got round to using it as 1. I need to get my head around how it works and 2. The time taken to plot where the decals go then actually placing them in the route, I could be halfway through doing another 1km section. Just my personal preference. Also (and perhaps back on the original topic) all this overhead detail we never really had in the early days of MSTS is maybe too much information? With MSTS we were working off maps and probably a cab ride video, the latter was in some ways a more useful guide as to what needed to be seen from the driver's perspective.

However given the glowing recommendations, when I get to the more populated parts I may well Decal a try.

[ightenhill]

I wonder if whats needed is more of a team affair on some projects.. Is that not feasable or workable, to have an expert in track layout and the basic landscape, with someone following adding the detailed scenery..

[Acorncomputer]

Group Route -

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 15&t=90921

[hertsbob]

Hi

Otterbear - It's always nice to know that you're not the only one! Your post has made me feel a whole load better!

Vern - RWDecal does the bulk of the plotting for you. You get a set of markers and marker flags named with reference to the decal and it's corner points, so it's easy to pinpoint where the decals need to go. It's not a very steep learning curve at all and is a very straightforward process. You also make a very valid points regarding the amount of detail required in routes. What I, and others, appear to be suffering from is the urge to recreate every blade of grass because we can! As I've said, I know I'm wasting my time but I just can't help it!!

One other point I'd like to make on this subject is that of course the viewing height you get in the editor is significantly higher than it is once you're in the game. I find this deceives me into thinking that it's possible to see far more whilst driving than you actually can.

Cheers

Bob

[Acorncomputer]

Vern - RWDecal does the bulk of the plotting for you. You get a set of markers and marker flags named with reference to the decal and it's corner points, so it's easy to pinpoint where the decals need to go. It's not a very steep learning curve at all and is a very straightforward process. You also make a very valid points regarding the amount of detail required in routes. What I, and others, appear to be suffering from is the urge to recreate every blade of grass because we can! As I've said, I know I'm wasting my time but I just can't help it!!

Yes, RW Decal is not too difficult to get the hang of at all (a VERY clever program) and the need to attend to detail IS a curse.

[theokus]

Vern - RWDecal does the bulk of the plotting for you. You get a set of markers and marker flags named with reference to the decal and it's corner points, so it's easy to pinpoint where the decals need to go. It's not a very steep learning curve at all and is a very straightforward process. You also make a very valid points regarding the amount of detail required in routes. What I, and others, appear to be suffering from is the urge to recreate every blade of grass because we can! As I've said, I know I'm wasting my time but I just can't help it!!

Yes, RW Decal is not too difficult to get the hang of at all (a VERY clever program) and the need to attend to detail IS a curse.

And with the next update those decals come in 3D...

[Otterbear2]

Just to add some more encouragement;

RWDecal is a godsend, All you have to do is tell it what box (in Google Earth), that you want a decal for, and it creates it and puts the decals into your proper folders and everything. All you have to do is go into your route and click on the "New" maker and it takes you right to it...the decals are placed in the same place every time...so then once you are at the proper "maker" ...zoom in till the flag become a circle..(IE, Your looking straight down the flag pole...select the decal of the same name and click in the middle of the circle..Wa la!)

A GREAT suggestion by moranb, was to use the "offset" tool and create some sort of markers - say 100 feet out(or whatever), and that shows you where to stop obsessing about the detail. (this will make it almost TOO easy for me)

Glad to be an enchoragement Bob (its working both ways)

[bigvern]

Now on the darker side of why projects fail and how to protect against it.

The first thing is no matter what the provocation, try not to get angry and if you do never delete or uninstall anything. In particular, if your source files are gone (as I found when I originally went to extend my Norway route) it makes it very hard to clone or restart a project. It pays not to get involved with arguments or controversial threads on forums as these can often be the catalyst that leads to the downing of tools.

As an example there is a thread currently running over at Flame-sim/Otto.com about a new RW route coming out and the sentiment from some posters seems to be, if your work can't match these standards then don't bother publishing it. The sheer arrogance and pomposity of this beggars belief, I resisted the temptation to post a response in line with the mantra above. And this is for freeware too, not some expensive payware route. Not saying route builders shouldn't be the best we can be but to start denigrating freely shared work on the basis of perceived quality is nonsense. Sometimes I think certain people are losing track of why we do this, it is to drive a train from the cab over a favourite route. It's not a hosing contest as to who can get the most blades of grass in a tile.

The same situation arose to a certain extent in MSTS where certain opinionated individuals started espousing "2006 standards", "must use UKFS" etc. and IMHO that just puts off willing people who might otherwise produce a route the community want to see. I'm sure if I sat down and churned out a 150 mile route with just the infrastructure, a few generic houses and trees on the default green terrain it would still be popular! My own standards wouldn't let me do that but the same people who castigate the best efforts of others are then the same ones who moan about lack of new routes to run the motive power and rolling stock on!

In some respects the above thoughts also belong in the "Future of Freeware" thread as with sentiments like those expressed on Train-sim.com there could very well be no future, if you drive away future contributors.