Atomic Systems

I have read different views on using Blender to create models for Railworks which have put me off using this - but I do understand that this package is free. However I have access to the 3D package 'Maya' but would like to know from anyone whether it is possible to create models in Maya and get them into Railworks ( directly or indirectly), or whether to just forget this package.

If it is possible could some kind person give me a brief list of actions to achieve this ? (ie. 1 - create model in Maya. 2 - Save file in xxx format. 3 - Open file using xxx programme, 4 - etc ) Hopefully from this information I can embark on a learning curve to produce something for my attempt at a real route which is currently in progress.

regards
Sweep54

Can you elaborate on what puts you off Blender?

I don't use it personally but looking on the forum, Pete's Q1 and 56xxx were both created with it along with Jeff's Class 33 (I think).

Thanks for reply.
I also have never tried it but the impression I get is that it is unconventional and not very user friendly - hence the tendency to avoid it. I do have a lot of 3D cad experience through my work (Catia, and Solid Edge) and I am reliably informed that I should take to Maya quite easily - which I do have access to. I appreciate any advice as I am very much a new starter at creating assets for any game / simulator but I do have a great desire and a lot of patience to learn and create assets for Railworks for my own and others usage.

If the answer is that Maya is pretty much a non-starter then I may well have a look at Blender and ask occasionally for help if I get stuck on problems.

Thanks
Sweep54

I'm not sure what formats Maya exports in, but .obj is a pretty universal one and Blender supports a lot more. However very few of them seem to support unwrap/texture details in the port across. So you'll probably end up having to learn quite a bit of blender to unwrap and then texture your models, not to mention naming all the parts correctly, creating animations if needed, setting up the materials and you'll probably use some of the excellent texture baking tools built into it as well!
After all of that, learning to add and then deform primitives to create what you need is probably pretty simple if you already understand 3D modelling and have an eye for where to start when you want to make a certain shape.
Blender is free, so I'd grab a copy (make sure it's v2.49 - not the new 2.5 - as the exporter needs this) and see if you can get a simple model from Maya into it. If you can, then use whichever one you prefer to make the model.

As Darren said, there are quite a few successful RW modellers using Blender, and I love it, however it's all I've ever known in the 3D world (well, since my Atari ST anyway!) and I have heard that it is not really like any other 3D package so the initial impression might be a bit poor. However it is hugely powerful, and I still hold with the best feature - it's free

Thanks karma and darpor for your help,

Yeah the 'free' bit is a big draw - but my access to Maya is also free.
I have to learn a new system either way so maybe I'm best making my own opinion on Blender by giving it a go as there seems to be more in its favour as regards getting an end result into Railworks. As I explained - I'm a new starter to creating stuff for games etc., so the process of making something (ie a building) is a blank page. I could do with an understanding of the basic processes to give myself encouragement to believe I can do it. If someone can explain in laymans terms please?

1. Create 3D model (this I understand but need to teach myself the new software)
then ???.
Apply Texture ??
then ???
Bake texture (what is this?)
etc.

Sorry if this sounds too basic but my 3D experience is from the engineering world (bus design) where we model first then create manufacturing drawings - texturing / baking is all new to me - but I want to learn.

Sweep54

No problem at all. I would think the quality of your models will be stunning - no pressure
One word of warning before you start. I suspect in engineering you use as many polys/faces as you need and if it takes 24 hours on a Super Computer to render the result for a client then that's fine. Games are a little more fussy
Depending what you're making you probably want to keep the count between 5,000 (wagons, main stations, a feature building) and 40,000 for a full locomotive. You can go higher (I believe 90k is the current "winner" of that prize!) but the more polys the slower the game will run.
Trackside objects and buildings you can use even less polys for. As Derek (the lead modeller at Railsimulator.com) always says, more is less. The idea is to trick the eye into seeing as much detail as you can using polys and textures without having to model every little detail.

However that does lead into baking techniques which can be used to take the detailing of high poly model and apply it onto a low poly model. But that's sprinting before we crawl. So there is a place for high detail models, you just probably wont put all of the model parts into the game.

At it's most basic, texturing is the process of "unwrapping" a model. Effectively making all the surfaces fit on a (or many) flat sheet/s which you then paint, and that image is wrapped around your model.
For Blender this is a good beginner tutorial http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D ... Map_Basics
with video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_8OV92HLPY

Obviously a more complex model requires more unwrapping and careful placement on multiple sheets, and you also try to share sections when you can to keep the resource usage low.

I would try something simple to start off, do some of the Blender tutorials (be careful to do them for v2.49, v2.5 has a new - and very different - interface I believe).
I've no doubt you'll be able to do it, as long as you're happy to put the time into it.
You have the hardest skill down already which is imagining pictures, objects, into 3D space. The rest is just learning the appropriate techniques.

The 3D Modelling forum here is probably worth a good read as well, and shout out there when you need help

Hi

I am not sure that there is a straight answer to this. Pete uses Blender and gets excellent results but probably the majority of freeware models for MSTS and RailWorks have been made using 3D Canvas (now to be called 3D Crafter).

At this stage the deciding factor is probably how easy it is to get your model into RailWorks and both Blender and 3DC have good exporters which make the job quite easy. Blender is free and so is the basic version of 3DC although you would need the pro licence (about £50.00) for 3DC to get the additional Trainworks features and inbuilt exporter. Trainworks is a set of tools that are designed specifically for people creating models for Railway Simulators and includes a lot of time saving features.

Like Pete, who only knows Blender, I only have any real experience of 3DC so I cam only say that I am comfortable with it and I am still learning something new each day.

3DC is well supported on UKTS and also on the dedicated 3DC forum and website, so answers to queries are often answered in either place.

I suggest you try out both Blender and the free but limited version of 3DC and see how you get on. Note that with 3DC the free version is in fact the full version but you do not get access to all the features until you type in a valid licence number.

It also depends on how serious you are about modelling. There is a great deal of time involved to do a 'proper' job in any modelling package. Pete is concentrating on top quality models but I am just making models to add to my routes so they will tend to be of a modest quality. 3DC lets me produce models like this quite quickly and easily.

Many thanks guys for taking the time to respond in such detail. This has given me the encouragement to get 3d modeling for the game. I shall have a look at Blender tutorials and see how it goes - pretty sure I shall be back for another shot of assistance when I take the plunge and start - but plenty of studying for now.

Sweep54

It's a pity you can get access to Maya instead of Max, but there you go... I would seriously look at seeing if you can export from Maya to one of the packages with the RW exporter; while you might be a blank slate for 3D game modelling, you don't sound like a blank slate when it comes to 3D work in general, and it's quite helpful not to have to go and learn a brand new way of doing things. I haven't done any 3D work since about 2002 so I've totally forgotten most of it, but there are some important things you never forget - like using the minimal amount of polys you can, and the fact that you can often get away with good texture work rather than use more polys - mostly if it's a part of the model that's not either ever going to be the most promenant part of a scene, or if it's something that's never really going to be looked at that closely. 3d games are about smoke & mirrors rather than CAD-level accuracy.

Yes it's a pity but whichever programme I use I need to learn it anyway (Maya, Blender, etc) - I have access to Maya but I haven't used it yet. But thanks for the input. My 3D knowledge is very much from a user perspective and not from the IT side of things so I would need guidance on what is compatible with what for Maya.

I have been looking into Blender and have downloaded version 2.49. Unfortunately the tutorials on the Blender website seem to be for a later release - as the user interface in the tutorials are totally different than in the version 2.49 that I downloaded. Having said that I must say that the later version does appear more 'user friendly' than 2.49. So my question is - 'Is the later version usable for Railworks?' - because I read somewhere to go for version 2.49, but can't remember / don't understand why. Can someone please enlighten me? On face value I think I would prefer the later release.

Sweep54

The exporter for Blender to RW was written against v2.49. Unfortunately they've changed so much behind the scenes in the new 2.5 onwards that the exporter is not compatible.
I believe Henning would like to do an updated version at some point, but it's taken us 18 months (?) to get to this point, so I personally wouldn't wait for it even though 2.5 is indeed a much friendlier interface.

Are 2.5 files compatible with 2.49? seems the simple option.

Blender 2.5 files compatible on version 2.49 ? - now there's a good question. From my experience compatibility generally works only one way - old on new is okay, but new on old is not - but I'm not one qualified to answer - maybe someone else can ?

I have been gathering lots of useful tips and information but the best pointer I need now to help me move forward (assuming that the 2.5 is a no-go for now) is where do I find a good tutorial for the Blender 2.49 version ?

Sweep54

When I had a look into Blender a couple of weeks ago I asked myself the same question. As I could not really find an answer to it, I just tried and found out: maybe. I had a simple house model from the tutorial I was going through and a station sign I tried as my first "real" object. While the model imported fine in 2.49 it just lost all it's textures. In my opinion the gui is much more intuitive and more thought trough in 2.55, so I guess I will stick to that for the building part and then do the texturing and unwrapping in 2.49. But that's just an absolute beginners thought, I don't know how it's going to work with more complicated models.

Hi,

When you open a 2.56 file in Blender 2.49 you get the message...

"You have opened a 250 file, key information will get lost, like animation data. Continue?"

The default layout and preferences of Blender 2.49 are off putting to beginners (me included),
but you can rearrange the layout and set preferences to suit. (I've always had the 'Buttons Window' vertically)

To get a more 2.5x style layout, split the panes so the 'Buttons Window' is vertical and add the 'Outliner' and 'Time Line'.



Here is my .blend file with 'Object Mode' arranged in the 2.5 style layout, and my default 'Preferences' set.
UKTSmember_B25style_Layout.blend
http://www.mediafire.com/?0k2s1iz89jaxdca


'Blender Basics- 3rd Edition' (PDF) is a good introduction to Blender 2.49
http://www.cdschools.org/54223045235521 ... =0&C=55205