MSTS Steam Scene

[alanch]

Close, she is owned by the NRM but she is on static display at Bressingham.

http://andrewsheritagetransport.fotopic ... 95674.html

She is kept company with other locos such as the London, Tilbury & Southend Railway tank, GNR C2 "Henry Oakley" and this stunning GNR Large Atlantic:

http://kieranhardy.fotopic.net/p43821997.html

Plus of course an E4 is also an LBSCR 0-6-2 tank.

http://kieranhardy.fotopic.net/p40243538.html

Thanks for the correction Kieran - I know the E4 was at the NRM some time in the past when I visited.

There is a picture of an LBSCR E4 on my website here http://alan-lewis-chambers.fotopic.net/p18620463.html .

And to complete the story, I grew up in Chingford, which is London E4.

[thenudehamster]

Anyone who has any knowledge of me and my preferences must know that only a Royal Blue E4 would stir my blood. Strictly speaking of course in Royal Blue it would have been a T26, the GER Class designation. They were known as 'Intermediates', being basically a smaller wheeled version of the earlier T19 2-4-0 express passenger engines and gained immediate favour among enginemen by all accounts, being much freer steaming and easier to manage than the T19. They, along with their similarly sized 0-6-0 counterparts, the Y14 or LNER J15, were also one of the longest surviving GER classes, lasting right up until the end of steam on BR.

Of course in the perverse way of the world, Chingford E4 is probably one of the few places an E4 would never have travelled to...

And as both the E4 and J69 preserved as part of the NRM collection are supposed to have been 'restored to original condition' on withdrawal and preservation, one wonders why they've not seen fire in their bellies and steam in their lungs since that time? They would, let's face it, be the ideal sized locos for most preserved lines, but does the NRM have something against ex-GER engines?

[kieranhardy]

And as both the E4 and J69 preserved as part of the NRM collection are supposed to have been 'restored to original condition' on withdrawal and preservation, one wonders why they've not seen fire in their bellies and steam in their lungs since that time? They would, let's face it, be the ideal sized locos for most preserved lines, but does the NRM have something against ex-GER engines?

I think one of the main reasons (at the moment) why these locos wont return is due to there being quite a few NRM locos active at the moment, such as City of Truro, O4 No. 63601 at GCR, Super D & the beattie well tank on preserved railways and Oliver Cromwell, Sir Lamiel (if the gauging issues arnt still causing a problem) and Lord Nelson (once she has had a mainline test) all on the mainline... and soon the LSWR T9 may join the nrm active list, along with 4472 "Flying Scotsman". The other reason is of course originality. Hence why locos such as Lode Star wont steam again. 4771 "Green Arrow" is another loco which may never steam again due to the same reason. Im not sure why originality comes into it when most locos by the time they were in BR ownership had been overhauled many times and wouldnt retain the same parts... even parts like the boilers in most cases. And seeing as the museum more or less butchered (sectioned) 35029 "Ellerman Lines" and are restreamlining Duchess of Hamilton... that sort of throws the originality factor in the skip. I'd rather see these machines restored to running condition, yes they explain the history of our railways, but they dont need to all the time... they would gather more interest out and about.

[dee4141]

An interesting detour - but somehow the original aim of this thread has been lost on the way.

[mendes]

An interesting detour - but somehow the original aim of this thread has been lost on the way.

OK!!

Why not have a stem forum????

[dee4141]

OK!!

Why not have a stem forum????

Indeed, and this was the original idea! In an odd way I think this thread has shown the potential.

[kieranhardy]

OK!!

Why not have a stem forum????

Indeed, and this was the original idea! In an odd way I think this thread has shown the potential.

Apologies Danny, i get too engrosed in steam natter easily!

[thenudehamster]

An interesting detour - but somehow the original aim of this thread has been lost on the way.

But this is the way interesting discussions go, Danny. It is relevant if only to show that a passion (or even a faint liking) for steam can manifest itself in all sorts of ways; I had no intention of hijacking the thread to tub thump for my pet cause - one small comment gave rise to a bit of a side issue was all.

Still, to drag the thread back on topic, while there isn't really a dearth of steam era modelling, the range feels a little skewed towards the GWR but that may simply be because pre- and post- both grouping and nationalisation, the GWR's livery never seriously changed, so where one loco class from A. N. Other Railway (or region) might need three or four or more variants depending on period, the only significant changes to GWR locos are minor changes of logo and lettering. Therefore model artists can turn their talents to umpteen different classes, rather than numbers of variations of the same thing. Or it may be that they aren't Royal Blue - but the Southern isn't that well represented either, apart from a few Bulleid pacifics - but I suppose there's the excuse that they electrified early. Midland & Great Northern, Somerset and Dorset, North British, Highland, Caledonian, Great Central; you can always find an under-represented corner of the steam era somewhere. If modellers want to make the models, there's a massive community out there and no matter how obscure the loco, someone will love them for producing them.

I know my pet railway, the GER is seriously under-represented and I wish I had the artistic and modelling talents to do something about it, but I'm realistic enough to admit that I don't. There's a wealth of locos that could be modelled, especially as a lot of traffic on the early steam era LTSR would have been handled by the GER - and it has Liverpool Street and Stratford. Whole rafts of 0-6-0 and 2-4-2 tanks (I think there's a BR (Gresley modified)version of A.J. Hill's K85 (N7) 0-6-2) for the Jazz trains, Clauds (yes, I know there's one) and Super Clauds, and S69s (B12 to the LNER/BR uninitiated - in about five variations) for the expresses. Hill's phenomenally powerful D81(J20) freights and the gorgeously eccentric looking 'coffee-pot' 0-4-0 dock tanks... A surprising number of GER designs lasted right up until the end of steam. Then there's all those lovely teak coaches of which Jur Snijder modelled a few.

And yet we have both variations on the idiosyncratic oddities, the Tram engines, which only ever actually worked between Wisbech and Upwell.

And did anyone know that the GER had the first 2-6-0 in volume production? And called it 'MOGUL'?
And they pioneered oil-burning?
And had the most intensive worked steam service in the world?
And handled more passengers every year through Liverpool Street than ANY other railway in the world through their equivalent?
And had the first batch of BR Standard locos in quantity - a lot of Britannias ran on GER metals...

Not bad for a little 'tram-line' as it was so often derisively termed.

Sorry - got carried away again. (folds up soapbox and stows it tidily for the next time something gets up his nose)

[kieranhardy]

I empathise with the original theme of the posting, but I would caution against over splitting the forums. It would be nice if posters were a bit more thoughtful about their titles when posting which would achieve the same result with less overhead but we live in an imperfect world.

It would be nice to think the decline in steam related postings is down to the fact that those of us working in that genre are getting it mostly right...

I don't think it is to do with thread titles at all tbh. There just doesn't seem to be a big interest in MSTS steam these days. I have recently posted many screenshot threads, some of which have included dee4141's superb new models. The threads get 200+ views but very little comments. For example my most recent batch of screenshots of dee4141's new King Arthur in Southern Black. The two comments the thread got were about the route i used, and nothing to do with the new model or the quality of screenshots. If i was danny i would feel very disheartened. Specially as this particular model had quite a few issues that needed fixing originally. All that work for no interest? Although it's nothing on the same scale but with those screenshots i took the time carefully choosing and placing all the relevent static stock around the route for the shots. Again, these things dont really get a mention. I can remember not so long ago, new msts steam models would create more than a few pages on a thread, now it seems your lucky to get over 1.
And to quote your last sentence, if the people working on the genre are mostly getting it right, where is the praise? I know not all of those 200+ views will be from steam enthusiasts, but do you really need to be interested in a set genre to respect and compliment the quality of work that has gone into making the model? I still enjoy using msts and screenshotting it, but when most of my threads dont get much of a reaction, you start to lose the interest and enjoyment of it all.

[dgraw]

I sympathise with you Kieran and Danny, I rarely visit the msts screenshot section now mostly to the fact that I am now an KRS user, and secondly that my copy of MSTS is currently not 'get at able'. But when I do I am always impressed by the wonderful models and screenshots that people like you and diesel fans still post, so I will go over there now and have a look in fact!
Although I often look at the shots I don't always post a comment though.

[Lad491]

I only look to see if anyone is posting shots of my activities. Nothing else much there is of interest to me.
Since I practically never download anything, I only ever use stock on CD's, new releases are of little interest to me until the get included.

[michaelhendle]

I usualy look out for Dannys loco's as they are some of the best Southern loco's around,although I'm more interested in the later BR era from about 1957-1967,as that's the time I used to spend my summer holidays at Bournemouth with my grandparents

My grandfather and I would sometimes go once a week train spotting at Bournmouth Central,and have a look in the shed,as one of my grandparents neibors was a driver at Bournemouth.

Or we would go by train to Swanage,and come back on the Paddle Steamer,and Kieren your shot's of Southampton Docks are excellent and show of Dannys loco's off superbly.

Looking forward to V2 of New Forrest Route,a definate route to get for me.

[desiro5]

Yes, the main reason I dont post screenshots as much as I used to is that no one is intrested anymore - no real point of putting the work in if nobody really likes em.

[thenudehamster]

I can't remember the last time I looked at the Screenshots forum.
Quite honestly it holds little interest for me as I would rather get my views of things in MSTS from actually using them in the game rather than see pictures of someone else doing it! The nearest I get to looking at a screenshot of something is when I'm browsing the downloads - when it does often help to to have some idea of just which piece of rolling stock I'm looking at...

I do feel a lot of the attraction of modern image traction of any kind is the enormous variety of liveries about nowadays; every TOC has its own variations and within them there are special event liveries, new styles and house themes. Back in the days of steam there was the 'house' livery for the notable locomotives and passenger engines; after that everything was black, except on the GWR. Post-nationalisation it got worse; only the top-link express engines were painted in any sort of glamorous livery - and that was a drab version of the GWR lined green. Most passenger engines got a variation on the old LNWR lined black - which was all right when it was clean and polished, but how many stayed that way? Freight was plain black. For coaching stock the GWR and Southern went their own ways as always, with either chocolate and cream or a variation on malachite green, but everyone else got dull maroon or that dreadful 'plum and custard' red and cream corporate standard - apart from the electrics on the ex-GER lines which were painted in something reminiscent of British Racing Green... Absolutely nothing about train travel in BR steam days seems calculated to make it an attractive way to travel - and they wondered why nobody did. Once they 'modernised' it took a little while to get colour schemes organised, but although I personally preferred the original BR green and grey to the later 'Rail Blue' you can't deny that it brightened things up a lot - and everything was painted in colour, including the 08 shunters which for the most part no member of the public saw, the twin 20s on coal trains, as well as the express passenger engines. Then they introduced Inter-City 'executive' grey expresses, blue and grey general purpose coaching stock, and trains started to look glamorous again.

How much more attractive would scenes have looked if the steam era stock had some of the bright liveries of today?

[rickloader]

I too sympathise with Danny and Kierans comments and always look out for their postings. I am always sorry screenshots don`t credit model and route author. Couldn`t the screenshot forum have pro-forma boxes for the credits to be entered? Throughout the Forums I see a lot of model authors feel their work is not appreciated and getting disheartened. A credit on the screenshot would surely help stimulate interest, discussion and give the author that deserved "warm glow inside"
Barry, if you want gorgeous steam liveries go pre grouping. As a GE man you must surely know that. I think BR maroon, BR(S) green and BR(W) choc. cream dignified and attractive. Coaches were usually clean (even if locos were filthy) and in the summer you could see all 3 liveries together. And there is no disputing steam era operations were far more varied.
If we have a steam forum, just don`t let us all get divided and start calling each other kettles and things!
Rick